Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS => Topic started by: ronwhite3030 on October 18, 2010, 07:56:22 pm
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how many rpm's does an extractor have to do to efficiently extract the honey and not get blowouts, I am trying to figure out what gear reduction I need for a motor because I cant put a variable switch on it or it will burn it up but the motor is reversible or if anyone knows of what reversible, variable speed motor I should get let me know.
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I do not know the right answer on that one, but I think it would depend on how big your extractor is (size around) and your frames, old wax or new wax, wired or plastic. Maybe trial and error? That is how I always done it.
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(But I am still working with the old hand crank.)
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yea i am trying to get away from the hand crank, now this is also a situation I have to.
I have a reversible motor that I can't make variable speed unless i use a clutch or sprockets, and I also have a motor that I can make variable speed but I can't reverse it to all you people out there would you rather have a reversible motor and have to deal with spockets or a clutch or a variable speed motor and just suck it up and flip the frames by hand?
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If you extract radially the comb can take a little more inertial force. Between the two motors I would opt for the variable speed. As Allen said it's more about the actual comb.
I extract foundationless (first year I've tried it) and found to start really slow until the bulk of the honey slings out and then gradually increase the speed.
Scott
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I have an old Dadant hand crank that is maybe 30 (who knows 40) years old I got from my old man. It looks just like the ones in the catalog so I was hoping one day to give them a call and see if the motors they have today might fit. I know it would be worth the money for me to add a motor than to buy a new one.
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Please explain why you need to reverse a powered extractor. BTW, I think you'll find the rpm's you need are about 60 rpm to start and sling out the biggest part of the honey, then gradually increasing to about 300 rpm to get the rest.
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reverse is so you don't have to flip the frames by hand .
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the first variable would be are you extracting radially or tangentially? and as someone suggest the next variable is diameter of the extractor can.
as a general guide line I think fish_stix numbers looks about right.
I personally use a variable speed drill (chucked to the shaft of my extractor reel) with a variable voltage device (used in a physics lab) that allows me to get around all the gearing problems.
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reverse is so you don't have to flip the frames by hand .
If you run clockwise or counter clockwise centrifical force doesnt change.
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reverse is so you don't have to flip the frames by hand .
If you run clockwise or counter clockwise centrifical force doesnt change.
I believe you danno So Now I am confused about these post's
If Frames are Standing(bike rim's) and going Clock wise then you reverse ??
Is it that the reverse just loosens the left honey ??
WHAT is Flip Them ??
Thanks
Tom
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With a radial extractor you don't reverse frames. The honey from both sides of the frame is slung to the outside, to the walls of the extractor, where it runs down to the bottom. With a tangential extractor, usually the small 4 frame or less extractors, only the honey on one side is slung out, then you reverse the frames to get the other side.
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What Type is this
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8964/dscf6199.th.jpg)
a tangential extractor
?
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What Type is this
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/8964/dscf6199.th.jpg)
a tangential extractor
?
this is a radial extractor. Both side get extracted at once. tangential has baskets that only one side of a frame faces out so centrifical force only removes honey from that side. The frame must be flipped so the other side faces out then ran again.
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the first variable would be are you extracting radially or tangentially? and as someone suggest the next variable is diameter of the extractor can.
as a general guide line I think fish_stix numbers looks about right.
I personally use a variable speed drill (chucked to the shaft of my extractor reel) with a variable voltage device (used in a physics lab) that allows me to get around all the gearing problems.
can you show me a variable voltage device I can for a variable speed drill. I can't seem to find one.
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You really need to be able to start slowly when the combs are heavy and work you way up to fast when the combs are mostly empty and you want to get that last little bit off.
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I have seen several extractors where they used old ceiling fan motors and you would control the speed with a rotary fan speed control switch from Home Depot. Very simple.
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you need to use a speed controller-not a reostat switch-speed controllers are made to do different things -such as reversible on the FLY-also these are how they achieve a true electric brake on machinery-some are complex and some are not cost is reflected in this-also lots of people speak of the treadmill motor-i think it probably has the controller built into it-you can buy the extractor control from dadant or even mannlake-but there cost is insane-look at different controllers for different applications -and figure out what you need for a bare bones setup-also EBAY is a good place to find them cheap
8-) RDY-B
http://www.drillspot.com/products/47230/Dart_Controls_AC03-05S_Adjustable_Speed_AC_Motor_Control?s=1 (http://www.drillspot.com/products/47230/Dart_Controls_AC03-05S_Adjustable_Speed_AC_Motor_Control?s=1)
they make ac or dc depends what you need
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Ron; I'm still confused here! Why do you need to reverse the motor? I've never used a tangential extractor but I think that once you flip the baskets you just continue turning in the same direction. Looking at the Dadant tangentials/radials, the motor only turns in one direction. Even if you reverse the motor you still have to flip the frames. The honey side has to face out to extract and it doesn't matter which direction it turns. As stated above centifugal force operates the same no matter which direction you turn the reel. Does your extractor automatically flip the frames when you reverse it? :?
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call walter t kelly-they used to sell a conversion kit for there 9 frame hand crank unit-you suply motor -it has a centrifigal clutch -that you tighten a wing nut while it runs and controls the speed by the pulley size change -when the wing nut is tighten-there new catolog lists maxant machines -but i think they can set you up with the conversion kit
8-) RDY-B
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Ron; I'm still confused here! Why do you need to reverse the motor? I've never used a tangential extractor but I think that once you flip the baskets you just continue turning in the same direction. Looking at the Dadant tangentials/radials, the motor only turns in one direction. Even if you reverse the motor you still have to flip the frames. The honey side has to face out to extract and it doesn't matter which direction it turns. As stated above centrifugal force operates the same no matter which direction you turn the reel. Does your extractor automatically flip the frames when you reverse it? :?
i dont see the advantage ether but they do make them to reverse in Europe -RDY-B
http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/20-Frm-Deluxe-Power-Extractor/productinfo/814/ (http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/20-Frm-Deluxe-Power-Extractor/productinfo/814/)
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Maybe from keeping the frames from getting dizzy? Or you don't want to liberalize the honey by spinning it too much to the left? That's all I could come up with. I know that when hand cranking, you just get tired and have to go the other way after a while.
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I have a hand-crank tangentail and I never get tired cranking.... that's Pam's job! :evil: I get to do the uncapping... 8-)
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My wife started off spinning, but she soon found other things that just had to be done every time we extracted this summer. She wore me out. I will look this spring to see if Dandant makes a motor to fit my old hand crank.
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I have seen several extractors where they used old ceiling fan motors and you would control the speed with a rotary fan speed control switch from Home Depot.
I just made one using a ceiling fan but I am going to use the three stepped switch that came with the fan for the three speeds. I won't get to use it until next season but I am confident it will work fine. The fan is mounted inside a plastic 55 gal drum. I don't think I can post a picture yet so you will have to wait to see it.
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9868/fourframeextractor005.jpg)
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7750/fourframeextractor006.jpg)
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I just made one using a ceiling fan but I am going to use the three stepped switch that came with the fan for the three speeds. I won't get to use it until next season but I am confident it will work fine.
Either I'm missing something here, or that motor is going to get covered in honey????
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I went back and forth on mounting the motor on top or leave it in the bottom. Here are my thoughts: It makes it more difficult and harder to work with to mount it on top. With the motor setting on the bottom I can just load the frames onto the PVC spindle and then set the spindle on the motor folowed by the top wooden "X" bearing. Yeah, it may get some honey on it but not much. Centrifugal force is going to sling it out away from the motor. I have it set up to do four frames at a time right now until I can see how it goes next year.
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If I may;
After you have uncapped your frames, they Drip honey, as I'm sure you know.
If I understand your proposed procedure, you will take the uncapped frames insert them into the holder, then load this as a unit onto the motor in the barrel.
I believe You better figure a way to cover the motor, when extracting, honey goes every where, remember it takes time for the frames to reach centrfical speed were the honey will be thrown with force all the way to the side of the barrel.
1 other thing I'm sure you know, until the frames become balanced by the extraction spinning, the extractor will walk across the flour, shakeing and a bouncing.
Good Luck
Bee-Bop
My Home Made Extractor
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/MrMurrell/th_100_0244.jpg) (http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/MrMurrell/?action=view¤t=100_0244.jpg)
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That motor needs to be on top, or on top side mount with a pulley.
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ceiling fan extractor--
:lol: RDY-B http://www.honeymoonapiaries.com/homemadeextractor/homemadeextractor1.htm (http://www.honeymoonapiaries.com/homemadeextractor/homemadeextractor1.htm)
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Hi Bee Bop. I probably should tell you that we refrigerate the frames because we take them late in the evening when it is cool and the bees seem to be very docile. The honey doesn't drip until it warms up a bit at which time I expect it to fling out.
All right, say it drips on the motor. So what, the outside of the motor spins with the frames so what ever lands on it to begin with will only sling off. If it becomes a problem I will just place and aluminum pie tin over it and then there are no worries. As far as the balance is concerned the beauty of a ceiling fan motor is it turns very slow on slow speed and gradually builds up speed because it is a torque motor which has the ability to be stalled without burning up. I will just hold the RPM down if the barrel tries to walk. Having all the weight of the motor belt and pulleys on top only makes the center of gravity high, which is not an advantage. I am sure once your barrel gets some honey in the bottom it doesn't move anymore.
I will let you guys know how it all works out next year. I got about $15 invested it this so far.
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I love your spirit of innovation! Looking forward to updates.
Scott
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Again I wish you the best:
How ever I must say my extractor itself is balanced, with out frames in it does not move.
However With full frames it does shake pretty much, yes it will hold 7 gal. of honey with out getting in the lower bearing, and with two 5 gal. buckets of water on the lower built in stand it does move some.
The motor driven extractors I have seen have holes in the legs to bolt them to the floor. { I'm working on that }
My RPM is from 0 too about 350-400 RPM. I start at 0 and slowly work it up to about 100 rpm about 20-30 sec., wait about 10 seconds then ease up to ward the top end, by that time they are empty.
I've never tried extracting refrigerated honey, I like about 90 degrees or so, that way the honey is thin and extracts just about completely.
I can run 10 mediums, 5 fulls or 5&5
Again good luck, nothing wrong with trying a idea.
Oh, and I am in NO way trying to diswade you in anyway, us do-it-ourselfers are a minority, and have to stick together.
Bee-Bop
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/MrMurrell/th_100_0243.jpg) (http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/MrMurrell/?action=view¤t=100_0243.jpg)
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In the refrigerated state the honey is not going to move much. It will have to warm up some before it starts to sling out.
I see an important difference in our two designs. Your extractor has the frames mounted to the outside, mine are on the inside. The weight difference between frames will cause much more shaking about when they are out at a greater distance. Of course I will have to spin them longer and maybe faster to get the honey out. Time is not a concern for me. It took over a week to get the honey out with the heat and drip method. I suspect with my new extractor I should be able to get it all done in one day.
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Unique design. Nice work.
Go with the pie pan at the start.
One problem I notice is the frames are bottoms out, they need to be tops out on a radial extractor.
The reason? you say. The cells of the comb on each side are slanted up approximately 13 degrees, so honey will be trapped, and no amount of speed will help.
Just a little more tinkering and you'll have it all figured out.
Goodluck
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I didn't know that, Thanks. Looking at my frames I can now see a definite uphill slant to the comb. My design was influenced by many home made spinners that basically use a paint stir (2 frame) whereby they attach the frames by the top board like I have. I am not sure if the bottom slats are strong enough to handle the force if I mounted the frames that way. I will be thinking about turning them around and what that will take.
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I just made one using a ceiling fan but I am going to use the three stepped switch that came with the fan for the three speeds. I won't get to use it until next season but I am confident it will work fine.
Either I'm missing something here, or that motor is going to get covered in honey????
Robo....
Reply # 30 (I probably should tell you that we refrigerate the frames)
1 Cold honey :?
2 Top bars inward not outward :?
3 Motor on bottom :?
Hope it works for you
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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I might suggest that you still use the tabs on the top bars to take the force by using larger pieces of plywood and cutting the notches further out. Then maybe some kind of clip on the pipe in the middle to keep the bottoms from flipping sideways.
Do some more brainstorming and have fun, plenty of time.
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I thought about that for a while but I decided to make metal brackets that clip on to the side of the frames. This way it will use the same mounting as I previously designed and also hook on to the top bar. I want to use the extractor as it is to spin out most of the honey and then turn the frames around to get the rest out. When they are tuned around (top bar out) the frames will be lightened quite a bit and I suspect less of an imbalance problem. There are videos of the paint stir technique on the net and it looks like most of the honey comes out of the frames even with the top bar facing inward.
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If you have a 2010 Dadant catalog;
On the front cover a stop motion photo shows a radial extractor in use.
It gives a very clear picture of the honey being flung out both sides of the frame once it is up to speed, neat picture.
Bee-Bop
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If you have a 2010 Dadant catalog;
On the front cover a stop motion photo shows a radial extractor in use.
It gives a very clear picture of the honey being flung out both sides of the frame once it is up to speed, neat picture.
Bee-Bop
Hear is the pix
http://www.dadant.com/documents/Dadant2010BeekeepingCatalog-forWeb.pdf (http://www.dadant.com/documents/Dadant2010BeekeepingCatalog-forWeb.pdf)
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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the first variable would be are you extracting radially or tangentially? and as someone suggest the next variable is diameter of the extractor can.
as a general guide line I think fish_stix numbers looks about right.
I personally use a variable speed drill (chucked to the shaft of my extractor reel) with a variable voltage device (used in a physics lab) that allows me to get around all the gearing problems.
can you show me a variable voltage device I can for a variable speed drill. I can't seem to find one.
If you could find a used variable frequency drive for sale for your size motor it would not need to have multiple speeds to vary the rpm.
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Jim I can't get the whole download (must be too large) so the pdf file goes blank. When you download the catalog from the Dadant site you don't get the front cover. Can someone take a pic and post it?
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I think I got it knocked now. Here are the stainless brackets so I can turn the frames around top bar out. I had to make eight of them.
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7605/extractorparts001.jpg) (http://img171.imageshack.us/i/extractorparts001.jpg/)
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3164/extractorparts004.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/i/extractorparts004.jpg/)
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WOW!!
You can work stainless steel?!
WOW!!
Nice work!
I'd go ahead and get all the wood parts out of the extractor.
Make your own reel, much less mess and quicker extracting.
WOW!
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Brackets look good.
Here is a link to a pic. of the Dadant cover, not really big enough to see the honey actually being flung out.
Bee-Bop
http://www.dadant.com/ (http://www.dadant.com/)
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I like the frame flipper brackets.
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I gotta get me one of them spot welders! Looking good!
Scott
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Acebird.....
Reply # 30 (I probably should tell you that we refrigerate the frames)
1 Cold honey :?
2 Top bars inward not outward :? Fix cool
3 Motor on bottom :?
Hope it works for you
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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Bee Bop,
It is perfect. Click on your link and then click on the picture of the catalog. It shows you the first page of the catalog. Now right click and choose zoom in. You can see every little droplet!
thanks.
1 Cold honey
2 Top bars inward not outward Fix cool
3 Motor on bottom
It's going to work for me. I can guarantee you the cold honey and the motor on the bottom is not going to be a problem. This is the way I extracted our honey this year:
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6366/p1030988.jpg) (http://img253.imageshack.us/i/p1030988.jpg/)
This easily got the the temperature up to 100 degrees and even at that temperature it took a long time to drip. If worse comes to worse all I have to do it warm the honey up. I still have this setup.
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WOW!!
You can work stainless steel?!
WOW!!
Nice work!
I'd go ahead and get all the wood parts out of the extractor.
Make your own reel, much less mess and quicker extracting.
WOW!
Thanks for the complement. I think, now that I have the time anyway, I will replace the top wooden donut that contains the top bar or metal brackets. I was using a rubber band to temporarily hold the frames while loading each one until I could get the donut in place. If I make a metal bracket and a clip I won't have to struggle to get all the frames lined up to get that donut in place.
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Yes, I like it much better now. The brackets act like a guide so all I have to do is drop the frames in. I think I will leave the PVC tube in the extractor and just load it that way instead of preloading it and then trying to drop the whole assembly into the barrel.
(http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6128/topbrackets001.jpg) (http://img225.imageshack.us/i/topbrackets001.jpg/)
(http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/444/topbrackets002.jpg) (http://img528.imageshack.us/i/topbrackets002.jpg/)
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That sounds like a better idea.
Now my silly question, have you spun the empty frames yet, how is the balance at all speeds ?
Balancing was my biggest problem.
Looking better than you had when you started out with, I think.
Good luck keep us informed.
Bee-Bop
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That sounds like a better idea.
Now my silly question, have you spun the empty frames yet, how is the balance at all speeds ?
Balancing was my biggest problem.
Looking better than you had when you started out with, I think.
Good luck keep us informed.
Bee-Bop
Balance has gotten a lot better since I made the brackets have a loose fit. When they were tight one or two were not exactly symmetrical and it would throw off the balance. When they are loose they kinda find their own center. I woud like to have some full frames to try it out. Anybody down south want to send me some full frames so I could test it?
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I have seen several extractors where they used old ceiling fan motors and you would control the speed with a rotary fan speed control switch from Home Depot.
I just made one using a ceiling fan but I am going to use the three stepped switch that came with the fan for the three speeds. I won't get to use it until next season but I am confident it will work fine. The fan is mounted inside a plastic 55 gal drum. I don't think I can post a picture yet so you will have to wait to see it.
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/9868/fourframeextractor005.jpg)
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7750/fourframeextractor006.jpg)
wont it short out with the motor in the honey-? how you gona wash it out with the motor in the drum ?
:) RDY-B
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From the looks of this Project If it works
I would think the owner will have to leave the
Barrel and motor to the bees to clean out
I like others think its going to short out
or at the very least, the motor magnets will get
overcome with honey and fail
I do hope it works, I think a tin-pan shield
is the answer ,If there is an answer
Tommyt
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I would think the owner will have to leave the
Barrel and motor to the bees to clean out
That was my plan. Do you see any reason why I shouldn’t let the bees do my dirty work?
http://www.electrical-forensics.com/CeilingFans/CeilingFans.html (http://www.electrical-forensics.com/CeilingFans/CeilingFans.html)
Take a look at a typical ceiling fan. There are no magnets. Better than that, there is no commutator. You can darn near hose this thing down and it won’t short. Anyhow, I will mount a tin pie spinner plate on the motor to make you all happy. The only detriment to the motor is it would rust if I hosed it down. But my bees can get anywhere the honey can get so I will give them the job of clean up.
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your bees will like that- :) RDY-B
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(http://www.electrical-forensics.com/CeilingFans/SMC-Fan/SMC-Fan-07-LG.jpg)
Little squares above # 6 thru 9
those be magnets :-D
I do hope it works it will cause a lot of
new designs for folks
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its electricity- :lol: motor needs to be isolated for safety- :) RDY-B
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Little squares above # 6 thru 9
Those squares are soft metal plates that get polarized by the coils of wire. magnets usually implies a permanent polarization.
its electricity- motor needs to be isolated for safety
Look closely the barrel is plastic and the motor is mounted in wood. Look at any power tool that states “doubly insulated”. That means anything you touch is an insulator (usually the outside case). Typically the appliance does not have a ground wire.
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ah come on-easy to put motor on top and be safe- :lol: RDY-B
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ah come on-easy to put motor on top and be safe-
Actually, it is considerably more difficult but well within my means. I like to develop things that the not so capable person can copy for their own use. If the motor is mounted on top it gets in the way for loading frames, creates bearing alignment issues and makes it much more difficult to break down to service. I got fellow beeks that have seen it and are itching to try it. They don't like sharing their crop with someone just to use their extractor and they can't afford the commercial ones.
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even if it works to a degree-how much honey can it spin before it wears its self out
its a novel idea -a nobel efort- but i spin several tons-and have used many many types
of spiners you will learn about what it takes -
but heres what i would do -cut another drum down to 1/4 size-cut the botom out of the machine you have-
set your machine on top of the 1/4 drum atach with simple light chain and turn buckels-similar to existing desighns
now you have a capture basin that you can let fill with honey-also make a cover for the motor out of somthing like a two gallon bucket and lid-now you are closer to a practical machine made safe-RDY-B
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even if it works to a degree-how much honey can it spin before it wears its self out
its a novel idea
One thing I can guarantee is it will outlast me, seriously.
but i spin several tons-and have used many many types
of spiners you will learn about what it takes -
The average backyard beekeeper will extract less than 100 pounds of honey. It is not designed to process tons of honey. That has no interest for the hobbyist. I have built machinery and process equipment that filled rooms 50x100 and as much as a half million dollar capital expenditure. Trust me, if I wanted to build a stainless steel extractor capable of processing tons of honey it would be a cake walk for me. Beekeeping, that's another challenge.
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everyone starts someplace -maybe you can invent somthing that will make a differance-
if you ask me what we need is a good honey stick machine-the one that comes up with that is going to be GOLDEN-RDY-B
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what we need is a good honey stick machine
You have to give me a little more to go on. I have no idea what a honey stick machine is.
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Google "honey sticks" or "honey straws". They're just a plastic straw filled with honey and sealed.
Scott
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Honey sticks are those STRAWS filled with honey-pepole buy them like crazy at the farm stands
and farmers market -there are a few companys that will proces your honey into sticks-or you buy them allready made
none the less the market is huge-problem is the only machines avalible to make any kind of quanity are priced tens of thousands of dollars-there are some tinker toy type but they just dont produce-need to fill straw with honey and seal both ends
many ways to do this but there has been a race to perfect a cost sensable machine-under $3000 would be resoable-needs to make about 150-200 sticks an hour-and run all day -huge opertunity here- 8-) RDY-B
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many ways to do this but there has been a race to perfect a cost sensable machine-under $3000 would be resoable-needs to make about 150-200 sticks an hour-and run all day -huge opertunity here-
If it is a food grade machine you will have the FDA involved. That by itself will double or triple the price.
A food grade machine will require all stainless steel construction with a minimum of #4 polished surfaces. I would suspect that you would have to heat the honey to lower the viscosity low enough to reach the fill rate of 200 sticks per hour with out going to multiple stations. Multiple station will increase the complexity and so the cost.
Off the top of my head $3000 sounds like a bargain but if you don’t have the FDA breathing down your back or OSHA (in other words you are a small fry) you can make something that may fit your needs. I would have to research what has already been done or is available in order to advise what could be done.
PM me if you are serious about working together.
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heres some back ground the sticky machine is not in production--they sold the paten-
guy cant get it to work for production- http://busybeefarm.com/stickypage.htm (http://busybeefarm.com/stickypage.htm)
there are others working on there own machine-it is doable-
http://honeyrunapiaries.com/blog/category/honey-sticks (http://honeyrunapiaries.com/blog/category/honey-sticks)
http://honeyrunapiaries.com/blog/the-sticky-machine-makes-another-appearance/109 (http://honeyrunapiaries.com/blog/the-sticky-machine-makes-another-appearance/109)
huge opportunity- the industry needs this machine-RDY-B
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I bought a whole bunch of honey sticks the year before last from Brushy on a sale. I still have a big old handful here, broke them out for Christmas for the kids. The kids really did not go for them much back then or Christmas. I like plain honey flavor best but have a bag of assorted flavors (or colors). But with the market, the mark up on the honey would be worth it I believe. I just have not found the right kids.
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I bought a whole bunch of honey sticks the year before last from Brushy on a sale. I still have a big old handful here, broke them out for Christmas for the kids. The kids really did not go for them much back then or Christmas. I like plain honey flavor best but have a bag of assorted flavors (or colors). But with the market, the mark up on the honey would be worth it I believe. I just have not found the right kids.
yea brushy uses colors to match flavors-pepole want natural -and like flavorings to be real juice
over the years the cost to buy these has risen-they cost about 7 cents-sell for 25 cents-we have buckets made up
for local honey or by them boxes of 1000-not trying to get rich on the sales -but to have my honey made up -
its about the same 7 cents and i suply the honey-we suply 7 farmstands and do 4 farmers markets -plus festivals
RDY-B
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would 326 rpm's be enough to get honey out of frames? or should it be faster or slower. Thoughts please.
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Think about how fast it spins when you hand crank. Buy the third box, I am lucky to have 60 rpm.
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what do you mean by buy the third box allen?
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would 326 rpm's be enough to get honey out of frames?
Centrifugal force is dependent on diameter and speed. So the bigger the machine is the slower it can go. Also time is a factor. If the speed is slower it will just take more time in the spinner. If you are not cranking it by hand time is less important because you can do something else.
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By the third box. Good catch there teach. Yes, I was government educated.
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now i get ya allen, yes Acebird thanks for the comment, I have a motor that spins at 1725 rpm's if my calculations are right and I use a 1.05" pulley and a 5.5" pulley it should reduce the max rpms to approx. 330 Rpm's. you can tell me if I am wrong though, I don't want to buy the wrong stuff.
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I don't want to buy the wrong stuff.
Your calculations are correct but if at all possible try to have at least two speeds. A slow speed to start and a fast speed to finish. The greatest amount of imbalance is going to happen when you start. It is also not good for the motor to start with a heavy load all at once. If you use a belt that is designed for slipage you can achieve a slow start by running the belt loose with a tensioner and then add pressure as it picks up speed.
Good luck with your project.
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using some type of tensioner is exactly what I am going to do let the belt slip at first then apply tension to have it go full speed after it gets the majority out.
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONEY-EXTRACTOR-Build-Your-Own-Better-and-Cheaper_W0QQitemZ150558813006QQcategoryZ46527Q#ht_500wt_1156 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HONEY-EXTRACTOR-Build-Your-Own-Better-and-Cheaper_W0QQitemZ150558813006QQcategoryZ46527Q#ht_500wt_1156)
http://www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-224905.html (http://www.beesource.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-224905.html)
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1048 (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1048)
http://s342.photobucket.com/albums/o407/jrmars/Extractor%20Clutch/ (http://s342.photobucket.com/albums/o407/jrmars/Extractor%20Clutch/)
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You can't get a correct answer of the proper RPM's to extract honey because RPM's are only one factor in the equation. What you are looking for is surface feet per minute. But to be honest, I've never heard of the correct footage you need to be running.
SFPM is calculated by pi times the diameter in feet, multiplied by the RPM's. The only thing is, the surface footage will be different for the top bar and the bottom bar of the frame, since they are at different diameters.
But I digress.
In regards to the homemade extractor, the fact that honey is acidic seems to have been overlooked. If you are going to have a motor inside the extractor, it needs to be completely sealed. Otherwise, the honey will burn it up pretty quick. Heck, you are lucky if a radio in a honey house lasts a year, because the tiny honey droplets in the air will eat it up.
If it is a food grade machine you will have the FDA involved. That by itself will double or triple the price.
Since when has the FDA had any oversight into equipment?
Here, even the local health department has zero authority in honey packing facilities or equipment. (And only large packers are required to be inspected.) It's covered by the Department of Agriculture.
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Since when has the FDA had any oversight into equipment?
Are you kidding me? Any equipment used in the production of food or drugs must be validated. A mom and pop shop that doesn't get inspected by the FDA has a relaxed set of rules (little exposure to the public). A major corporation poses more risk to the public and if something goes wrong in the public sector a visit from the FDA is eminent. If you arn't following the protocols and you get caught it will cost you. And let me tell you it is all about records.
Heck, you are lucky if a radio in a honey house lasts a year, because the tiny honey droplets in the air will eat it up.
Pretty good reason to keep the rpms on the low side so it doesn't vaporize the honey. I have had motors engulfed in hydro gels that would eat the epoxy off the floor. Twenty three years and still running. It makes a difference how you do it and what motor you use.
The only thing is, the surface footage will be different for the top bar and the bottom bar of the frame, since they are at different diameters.
You only need to be concerned with the the part of the frame that is at the outer most diameter.
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You can't get a correct answer of the proper RPM's to extract honey because RPM's are only one factor in the equation. What you are looking for is surface feet per minute. But to be honest, I've never heard of the correct footage you need to be running.
SFPM is calculated by pi times the diameter in feet, multiplied by the RPM's. The only thing is, the surface footage will be different for the top bar and the bottom bar of the frame, since they are at different diameters.
I honestly never would have expected to find trig in beekeeping.
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It's geometry and algebra, not trig. ;)
We can probably find some trig if you really need it...
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It's geometry and algebra, not trig. ;)
We can probably find some trig if you really need it...
I won't argue that, for some reason some of those types of calculations were included in the beginning of the trig course I had recently. - I think it was a warm up or refresher to prepare for some of the other functions.