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Author Topic: following everthing by the book  (Read 3822 times)

Offline danno

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following everthing by the book
« on: January 31, 2008, 04:47:05 pm »
Is there anyone out there that has stayed desease and mite free by following all the rules. Using only new equipment, buying certified desease free package bees, staying away from others apiaries and keeping beeks out of yours and keeping enough distance between your operation and others. I'm weighing out buying nuc's or drawn comb verses starting slow (maybe to slow) with 3# packages and new foundation. Also I am thinking about speading my future 5 hives around my property instead of close together keeping a minimum on several hundred yards between them. I see many great locations on my property

Offline Understudy

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 06:48:00 pm »
The best thing I got out the books I read is this.
You ask 10 different beekeepers you will get 10 different answers, all of which are correct for each of them.

After that the books are a way to get a good foundation of ideas and a way to ask better questions.

I have never bought bees. I have bought queens but not packages. Using only new equipment sounds expensive. If you buy a hive already established from someone who has had bees for a while and they are healthy you are better off than buying new equipment and a package, simply because you have an established hive. However you miss out on all the experience you can get from starting a hive from scratch.

Bees cover a two mile area. a few hundred yards won't make much difference as to how the plants in the area get worked.  Keeping two hives close together helps reinforce the two hives. However having a hot hive next to a normal hive can cause both hives to get worked up should the hot hive decide to have a bad day on you.

My recommendation is if you are going start. Buy one established hive and then buy one package and work on setting it up. The established hive will help give you a reference point for what the package should end up like. Keep both hives close together but inspect them on a semi regular basis and if you see any signs of disease move it away from the healthy hive.

Expect a certain amount of defeat, you can read all the books follow all the rules and still lose hives. The wisdom you gain from understanding what went right and what went wrong will make you a better beekeeper. 

Sincerely,
Brendhan

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Offline buzzbee

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 07:19:55 pm »
We had no mites year one . the 2nd year on Josh's hive he had mites. All the swarm captures from my yard were mite free this year but I expect that will change.

Offline Kathyp

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 07:33:23 pm »
i got chalkbrood going in one hive.  only one...don't know why...

since your bees will travel and come in contact with other bees, you probably can't avoid the chance of contamination.  know what to look for.  know what to do about it.  be prepared for the SH factor and don't get discouraged.  and....don't get so hung up on one way of doing things that you will not try alternatives if you need to.
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Offline Kimbrell

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 07:43:18 pm »
I have followed all the "rules" that I have read about and have had no diseases or mites so far.  However I don't give but 10% of the credit to following the rules.  The other 90% goes to blind luck!

Offline johnnybigfish

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 09:12:24 pm »
Hey Danno,
I started last spring with all new stuff, no drawn comb or anything, just stuff right out of the box. My bees SEEM to be doing good to me and other beeks have said they're doing GREAT. I did have to get another queen shipped again after I Thought I lost mine in one hive. I havent seen any Mites or beetles and nothing else peculiar but keep in mind I'm new at this and havent finished winter yet. I just have the word from a few other beeks that have seen my hives.
 Like it was said earlier, I think it could be "Beeginners luck".
Also, I did feed them all summer.
your friend,
john

Offline rdy-b

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 10:42:42 pm »
If you have bees that visit your property then no matter what you do -it is just a matter of time before your bees are exposed to mites and various disease -freshly drawn comb helps keep diseases at bay-the newer you can keep the wax in the brood chamber the better off you will be -RDY-B

Offline JP

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2008, 12:00:59 am »
I have not had any major issues and I don't use chemicals of any kind. I have only done sugar shakes, I use sbbs. I have lost a few hives that swarmed out, that wax moth took over, and a few that waxmoth, then shbs took over, but only a few. I had one hive that had higher than normal varroa. Most of my hives are from cut-outs and swarms. I have come to realize that a strong colony can fight off varroa and that shbs are extremely common but not a big issue, at least in my neck of the woods. Every hive I have ever removed has had at least a few shbs in there, but mainly the bees just co-exist with them. I purchased some thymol a few yrs ago but never used it.

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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2008, 01:25:58 am »
Quote
Keeping two hives close together helps reinforce the two hives.

Awh, the advantages of drifting.


Quote
However having a hot hive next to a normal hive can cause both hives to get worked up should the hot hive decide to have a bad day on you.


Inspect the  hot hive(s) last, saves on the constitution.  Working a hot hive 1st sets the entire yard on edge.  Working the calm hives 1st reduces the sting rate humongously.
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Offline danno

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2008, 09:19:44 am »
The reason I thought I would space them out several hundred yard was souly to avoid drifting.  I have talked to most of the area people in the industry and  they have given me differant oppinions.  One migratory beek offered nuc's and drawn foundation.  Another said that if I got anything from him I should get something in writing saying there will be no AFB.  Another offered alot of advise but his neighbor told me not to trust him.  This neighbor was the one that told me to never vistit others apiaries or allow other beeks to enter mine. Another with many hives told me he has mite problems but treats for them with  method that he would show me.  I told another of this method and he said " He cant do that its not approved"  I got to say if I listen to them all my hobby would be limited to staying in the house watching feral bees from the safty of my livingroom.  If I do start out with only new foundation verses drawn out how much time will it set them back     

Offline Understudy

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2008, 10:03:49 am »
The reason I thought I would space them out several hundred yard was souly to avoid drifting.  I have talked to most of the area people in the industry and  they have given me different oppinions. 
10 different beekeepers 10 different answers.
Drifting can be beneficial to a weak hive or a nuc if placed next to a strong hive.

Quote
One migratory beek offered nuc's and drawn foundation. 
Nucs with drawn foundation are good. Easier than a package not quite as good as a fully established hive.
Quote
Another said that if I got anything from him I should get something in writing saying there will be no AFB.
No beekeeper can tell you you will never have AFB. They can tell you they have done everything they should to protect against it. But you can buy a tire with all the warrenties in the wrold and still get a flat. No beekeeper I know will give you something in writing saying his hive is AFB proof and if he does he is an moron. Every hive has a few AFB spores. The difference is that a healthy hive isn't affected by them. AFB tends to get hold when a hive has health issues. Your intestines have E Coli bacteria. They don't present a problem unless it gets outside of your intestines. That is usually due to a health issue. A healthy hive is still the best defense against most things out there.
Quote
Another offered alot of advise but his neighbor told me not to trust him.  This neighbor was the one that told me to never vistit others apiaries or allow other beeks to enter mine.
This advice you have been given borders on some of the most ridiculous I have ever heard.
This comes from old style beekeepers trying to keep "trade secrets." Beekeeping is in decline. We need to do what we can to promote it. You want to be a good beekeeper see as many beekeepers as you can gain an idea as to what they do and then customize it to work for you.  Trust the beekeepers you feel comfortable with. Sounds like you have a group that does more gossip than a sewing circle.
Quote
Another with many hives told me he has mite problems but treats for them with  method that he would show me.  I told another of this method and he said " He cant do that its not approved"  I got to say if I listen to them all my hobby would be limited to staying in the house watching feral bees from the safty of my livingroom.  If I do start out with only new foundation verses drawn out how much time will it set them back     
Mites and chemical treatments are a fun topic. Down here in Florida they are basically now stating to say certain chemicals are no longer effective or to dangerous to use in the hive but others are fine. I will throw you one more curve ball. I use no chemicals. have next to no mites. That will cause your sewing circle to have siezures. My opinion on this (and soley mine) is you should be a beekeeper and not a pest control operator. <--- See comment on 10 different beekeepers, that is number 11. :)

Drawn comb is a nice way for bees to start all they have to is start filling cells with brood, pollen , and honey. Gives them a bit of a head start. With Foundation they have to draw their  own comb that takes a bit longer. And you will need to supplement their diests a bit longer. Drawbacks are if you don't know where the comb came from you can't be 100% sure as to it's health state. However I will be one of the first to tell you if a hive is weak to throw in a frame of brood from another hive to help it along. Seems kinda contradictory, but beekeeping is like that. Lots of rules and even more exceptions to the rules.

A small note. Information on beekeeping when you are starting can cause your brian to melt. Stress headaches, information overload, contradictions, 6 million different methods which one is right for me, all can raise one's blood pressure. And then beekeeping stops being fun. Unless you are in business with beekeeping keep it fun. Don't get upset over the mistakes. Laugh at the swollen lip when you get stung. And when the family imitates you dancing around because your bees are having a bad day, laugh with them it's funny. And then tell them they get no honey. :)

I have been to several of the memebers beehives on this board. members here have traveled far and wide and meet others on this board. Several of us have consumed quite a bit of alchool telling our beekeeping stories in person. Maybe if there were tons of beekeepers and the price of honey was .50 cents a pound it might be different tale. But in the meantime I have blender with frozen margaritas and almost 80F/26C weather. And my beekeeping stories get better the more I drink. ;)

Sincerely,
Brendhan



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Offline Cindi

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 10:22:15 am »
Brendhan, what a beautiful mouthful of words you have put to your computer keyboard.  Well said and I enjoyed every bit of it, have a wonderful and great day, loving our life we live.  Cindi
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Offline danno

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 11:06:02 am »
Thank alot Brendhan
You have set alot of things to rest for me

Offline KONASDAD

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 11:45:13 am »
You will eventually get mites no matter what. They wiill come w/ package or from the wild, but you'll get them eventually. Whether they win the fight is up to you and your bees. Practice integrated pest management and you'll stay ahead of the parasite/host curve of production. The bees can handle mites up to a certain point.

Repeat everything Understudy said too about beekeeping .
"The more complex the Mind, the Greater the need for the simplicity of Play".

Offline JP

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2008, 03:55:26 pm »
Apparently, margaritas help cure any bee problem.


.........  ;) JP
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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2008, 08:27:23 pm »
I've not followed any of the rules for 34 years now and done pretty well...
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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: following everthing by the book
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2008, 11:16:28 pm »
I've not followed any of the rules for 34 years now and done pretty well...


If you follow all the rules you'll never be a successful beekeeper.  You'll have bees, sure, but you won't get their max potential.  I've been keeping bees since I was 11 (I'll be 60 this summer) and I'm still learning, changing the way I do things, and gradually getting better results than was the norm when I started in 1959.  One discovery of major importance, IMO, is that chemical treatments (manufactured products) is not the way to proceed.  Letting the bees develop a tolerance or working relationship with the varroa mite is the only way to keep beekeeping alive.  This takes a bit of courage watching hives die off, selecting the survivors, and breeding for it and still keep them docile and productive.  No small task.  Every way to achieve this from small cell (actually natural cell) to bottomless bee hives should be used.
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