Question about propolis

[Dallasbeek]

My understanding about propolis is that bees produce it from tree buds, sap, etc.,, but an acquaintance from Romania, whose father was a beekeeper, insists it is also made by bees from the outer covering of pollen.  Is there evidence of this, or is he misinformed -- or perhaps this is something the European beekeepers know that scientists just have not proved through the scientific process?  If the outer covering of pollen can be used to make propolis, it might explain the abundance of propolis in hives when tree buds and sap are not available.

[little john]

It's certainly possible.  The coating surrounding pollen grains contains pectin (which is why I've never bought-in to the somewhat paranoid idea that pectin is toxic to honeybees), and as we know, pectin is a thickening agent when combined with sugars - so yes, it's possible.
LJ

Propolis or bee glue is a resinous mixture that honey bees produce by mixing saliva and beeswax with exudate gathered from tree buds, sap flows, or other botanical sources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propolis

[BeeMaster2]

Not sure if they can make it but they do definitely do collect it and bring it into the hive on their hind legs.
Jim

[Jim134]

It's certainly possible.  The coating surrounding pollen grains contains pectin (which is why I've never bought-in to the somewhat paranoid idea that pectin is toxic to honeybees), and as we know, pectin is a thickening agent when combined with sugars - so yes, it's possible.
LJ

Propolis or bee glue is a resinous mixture that honey bees produce by mixing saliva and beeswax with exudate gathered from tree buds, sap flows, or other botanical sources. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propolis

        Do you or anyone have any research papers from any college. That propolis is made and not collected ?



                     BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Dallasbeek]

Even if collected from pollen coating, it is collected.  They don't "make" it, either way, but yes, your question is a good one.  What is the method for creating propolis? Is there some scientific basis for our assumptions?

[little john]

This is the best I can come up with at short notice:

Where does propolis come from?
Plants are rooted to the spot where they grow and this means that if attacked by an enemy, plants cannot escape. Plants have therefore evolved chemical defence systems to protect themselves. These include toxins, bitter tastes and stinging repellents, which serve a prophylactic function for plants. Tender buds provide highly nutritious snacks for insects and need to be protected: often a plant protects its buds with sticky gums. When a tree is wounded, it secretes resin around the wound as the first stage of the healing process.
Humans also derive great benefit from these powerful plant chemicals: there are thousands of examples. Everyday  substances include aspirin (from willow trees), penicillin (from a fungus), caffeine (from coffee) and menthol (from mint plants). Many medicines are derived from plants. Like humans, bees also harvest powerful plant chemicals. They do it by collecting tree gums and resins and placing them in their nest.

Foraging by bees
The bee bites off scraps of plant resin with her mandibles and packs them into the corbiculae (pollen baskets) on her hind legs. Each corbicula can carry about 10 milligrams of propolis. Because of its stickiness, propolis gathering is a slow business: it can take an hour to fill both baskets. Back at the hive, unloading can take another hour. Propolis is only collected when the temperature is above 18 ?C.
 
Sometimes bees collect man-made materials and use these in the same way as ?real? propolis. For example, bees will collect drying paint, road tar or varnish. Presumably, to bees these substances have a consistency and strong odour similar to plant resins. 
It was generally believed that bees collected resins and gums without altering their composition. However, recent research has shown that bees? enzymes do indeed transform some components of propolis.
ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/012/i0842e/i0842e13.pdf

I can confirm they scavenge paint which is drying etc, and have photographs of them doing this.

All you gotta do now is discover what that 'recent research' was ... 
LJ

[Jim134]

This is the best I can come up with at short notice:

Where does propolis come from?
Plants are rooted to the spot where they grow and this means that if attacked by an enemy, plants cannot escape. Plants have therefore evolved chemical defence systems to protect themselves. These include toxins, bitter tastes and stinging repellents, which serve a prophylactic function for plants. Tender buds provide highly nutritious snacks for insects and need to be protected: often a plant protects its buds with sticky gums. When a tree is wounded, it secretes resin around the wound as the first stage of the healing process.
Humans also derive great benefit from these powerful plant chemicals: there are thousands of examples. Everyday  substances include aspirin (from willow trees), penicillin (from a fungus), caffeine (from coffee) and menthol (from mint plants). Many medicines are derived from plants. Like humans, bees also harvest powerful plant chemicals. They do it by collecting tree gums and resins and placing them in their nest.

Foraging by bees
The bee bites off scraps of plant resin with her mandibles and packs them into the corbiculae (pollen baskets) on her hind legs. Each corbicula can carry about 10 milligrams of propolis. Because of its stickiness, propolis gathering is a slow business: it can take an hour to fill both baskets. Back at the hive, unloading can take another hour. Propolis is only collected when the temperature is above 18 ?C.
 
Sometimes bees collect man-made materials and use these in the same way as ?real? propolis. For example, bees will collect drying paint, road tar or varnish. Presumably, to bees these substances have a consistency and strong odour similar to plant resins. 
It was generally believed that bees collected resins and gums without altering their composition. However, recent research has shown that bees? enzymes do indeed transform some components of propolis.
ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/012/i0842e/i0842e13.pdf

I can confirm they scavenge paint which is drying etc, and have photographs of them doing this.

All you gotta do now is discover what that 'recent research' was ... 
LJ

       I see you have quotes with no references. And I have read both of them . I see by both quotes bees collect propolis. I did go to your link on the last one and there still is no references of who wrote it. On the last quote it does tag on something very interested which I wanted to read. Still no research papers and or references for the last statement. I do hope you have a good day



       BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[GSF]

The needles on one of the pine trees back behind my apiary seems to get my attention every spring. It looks like a beetle infestation except only on the needles. I see little sacks of pine resin on most of the needles. This past summer my wife noticed that bees seemed to fly and lite on the needles. -She's a swarm watcher- I don't know if that was one of their sources or not but I would tend to think so.

[Jim134]

I do know from personal experience every time the hives are close .. To large growth of Pines/Spruce lots of propolis show up in the hives.


             BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[Michael Bush]

>an acquaintance from Romania, whose father was a beekeeper, insists it is also made by bees from the outer covering of pollen.

I've read hundreds of old and new bee books and hundreds of studies.  It's the first time I've ever heard that proposal.

Bees are very adaptable in a pinch, but by far the majority of propolis is from the buds of trees of the poplar family.  Bees seem to have a strong preference for that, but in a pinch they will gather road tar, pine resin etc.

[Jim134]

>an acquaintance from Romania, whose father was a beekeeper, insists it is also made by bees from the outer covering of pollen.

I've read hundreds of old and new bee books and hundreds of studies.  It's the first time I've ever heard that proposal.

Bees are very adaptable in a pinch, but by far the majority of propolis is from the buds of trees of the poplar family.  Bees seem to have a strong preference for that, but in a pinch they will gather road tar, pine resin etc.

  Do you actually believe Road tar has any beneficial properties for bees ? Other than filling cracks.
  I have also seen bees collect sawdust .From construction sites in the early spring with no natural pollen around. I doubt very much that had any beneficial properties bees could use.



        ..  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Jim134]

  On March 7th 2015 we had this lecturer At your Local bee Club. One of the best talks I've ever heard On resin and propolis of the hive and how honey bees use them. He did write his thesis on this very subject. Of raisins and propolis and how bees use  them in the hive.

Dr. Mike Simone-Finstrom
Topic: Propolis and Honey Bees: What is the use of resin in the hive?
 
  The link below is a sample of some of his work. I hope you enjoy it. And yes he has been featured at a few treatment free bee conferences in the USA.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120330111027.htm
 

 If you would to know a little more about Dr. Mike Simone-Finstrom you can read pg. 3 of this link

http://worcestercountybeekeepers.com/images//stories/Newsletters//2014winter.pdf
   


               BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[little john]

      I see you have quotes with no references. And I have read both of them . I see by both quotes bees collect propolis. I did go to your link on the last one and there still is no references of who wrote it. On the last quote it does tag on something very interested which I wanted to read. Still no research papers and or references for the last statement. I do hope you have a good day

You appear to be unreasonably critical of my post.  Although I always try to help people whenever possible, much as it may surprise you, it is not my function in life to answer your questions. 

The way it works is that the person who has the question does the work required in order to answer it - rather than expect other people to do that work for them.

If you had really read the reference I gave, then you would see that it references BOTH of those quotations.  Ok, so it doesn't give the name of the writer ...  you now know as much as I do.

So - go and find out for yourself the writer's name, and what recent research they were referring to.  You are as well equipped to do that as anyone else is.
 
LJ

[Jim134]

I am not criticizing your post. All I'm saying is something taken out of context is just a pretext. Learn that a long time ago from my from one of my old professors. If you reread your post there are no references just a quote. From who knows who where it's from. Yes maybe you do.
Hope you have a good day.



            BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Michael Bush]

> Do you actually believe Road tar has any beneficial properties for bees ? Other than filling cracks.

I have no beliefs one way or the other on the matter.  Obviously they can fill cracks.  I only know what they do, not if it is beneficial.  As you say, I doubt very much that gather sawdust or coffee grounds is beneficial but I've seen them do it often enough...

[Jim134]

I have seen bees collect water/ moisture from strange places. I actually believe they're after the minerals or other Trace elements.




                BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :)