Author Topic: split-able hive? (Read 5496 times)

stella · « **on:** July 03, 2012, 01:12:24 pm »

My only hive is on its second year. Re-queened it on June 12. Queen is laying. Lots of bees. 2- 8 frame deeps full. 3rd deep is on.

Can I make a split this year all things considered? How late in MN would it be possible? They would have to raise a new queen.

Oblio13 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 03, 2012, 01:59:05 pm »

I'm interested in this, too. This weekend I plan to make up some nucs with four frames each, and hopefully will be able to feed them until they're full before winter hits.

AllenF · « **Reply #2 on:** July 03, 2012, 08:28:14 pm »

I can't say about up there, but down here I would say split them.

FRAMEshift · « **Reply #3 on:** July 03, 2012, 08:39:00 pm »

Do folks in MN overwinter in one deep or two? Here in NC one deep is enough and you could split now. But if you need two deeps to get through winter, it would be good to at least have a laying queen ready to go when you do the split. And be ready to feed in September to get them ready for winter.

Oblio13 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2012, 09:22:48 pm »

I was thinking along the lines of five-frame nucs. I think there's time for them to make a queen (they're still making plenty of drones, anyway). If they're fed through the usual August dearth, and also September if there's not a decent fall flow, I think there's enough time for them to fill their nuc with honey.

beehappy1950 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2012, 11:17:40 pm »

I wintered 4 hives in 3 deeps last winter. I am going to try to do it in 2 deeps this year so I can get some honey, maybe. I wouldnt try to put a nuc thru winter. You have oct to june , no way can they make it. I wouldnt split now just put on 4 or 5 supers. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Harold

Finski · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2012, 01:01:39 am »

.
When the hive has 4 boxes, its stands that you make a nuc. 4 box hive is not big in July. It is growing.

- Start with one frame emerging brood
- store frame sugar + pollen and foundation frame.
- bye a queen.
- restrict the bee sace to 3 frames and use insulating styroboard

DON'T FEED THE NUC!!! it only restricts laying area.
Nurser bees are minimum factor in small hives. Nature is full of food if they need it.

It is real disaster if you rear own queen for one hive.

When nuc is full of brood, or it cannot make brood more with that gang, add again emerging brood frame. Move the wall board if necessary. Dont keep extra space in the nuc.

At same time your big hive may have 5-6 boxes. After a month you may take perhaps 2 frame of brood, nucs own bees are emerging and you get a whole box of bees and brood.
If nuc has too much food, give them to big hive and keep laying area big.

So you get in one month one box nuc/hive, but don't take too quickly brood from big hive.
It restrict its build up.

.

Algonam · « **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2012, 07:36:58 am »

Hi Stella,

As you know I'm just as new at this as you....but splitting could be risky. With your weather I'd do a double brood chamber just to be sure.

With all of the problems you have had this year why risk going into winter with a weak hive or 2? I think I would enjoy the strength of this hive (honey!!) and go into winter with a strong hive, then in the Spring, if your hive is strong, build it up stronger ....then do a late May/early June split.
I learned this year that a split affects both halves of the split and both halves are taking a long time to gain strength.

I'd throw on some honey supers and make sure they have lots of room to continue to build up.

Just my opinion (with limited experience!)

Keep us posted!

Jim134 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2012, 08:04:20 am »

Quote from: Oblio13 on July 03, 2012, 01:59:05 pm

I'm interested in this, too. This weekend I plan to make up some nucs with four frames each, and hopefully will be able to feed them until they're full before winter hits.

If you do a split feed syrup & a pollen patty.

This may help you out

http://youtu.be/qIYz65Vquxg

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Finski · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2012, 02:12:00 pm »

.
Algonam and Jim give wrong advices. Nothing like what they say.

Look at my place. At same latitude as Anchorage.

To make nuc has no risky business. It is start of July and summer is long, at least in Michigan.

You cannot feed pollen patty in summer, because bees do not eate it. They get pollen from nature, and then if the nuc is short of pollen, take pollen frame from the big hive.

I have rearer with pollen patty 6 nucs. They developed really fast, but they allmost all died because pollen patty is not good enough foor to wintering bees. They need real pollen.

In Finland 5 frame colony is minimum which goes over winter with normal procedures, but its build up is slown in spring. It needs insulated hive.

Do as I said and that goes fine. But ofcourse you do what you do.

There are allways risks in beekeeping.

.

Jim134 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 04, 2012, 04:41:32 pm »

Quote from: Finski on July 04, 2012, 02:12:00 pm

.
Algonam and Jim give wrong advices. Nothing like what they say.

Look at my place. At same latitude as Anchorage.

To make nuc has no risky business. It is start of July and summer is long, at least in Michigan.

You cannot feed pollen patty in summer, because bees do not eate it. They get pollen from nature, and then if the nuc is short of pollen, take pollen frame from the big hive.

I have rearer with pollen patty 6 nucs. They developed really fast, but they allmost all died because pollen patty is not good enough foor to wintering bees. They need real pollen.

In Finland 5 frame colony is minimum which goes over winter with normal procedures, but its build up is slown in spring. It needs insulated hive.

Do as I said and that goes fine. But ofcourse you do what you do.

There are allways risks in beekeeping.

.

Feed syrup & a pollen patty. The Nuc will be populated by young house bees and emerging brood.It will lack the older foraging bees making feeding a necessity for the first month to 6 weeks..

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Finski · « **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2012, 06:50:12 pm »

Quote from: Jim 134 on July 04, 2012, 04:41:32 pm

Feed syrup & a pollen patty. The Nuc will be populated by young house bees and emerging brood.It will lack the older foraging bees making feeding a necessity for the first month to 6 weeks..

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

e
I quess that you have not much experience in profounding new hives.

"It will lack the older foraging bees making feeding a necessity for the first month to 6 weeks"
That is pure nonsense. You mix something things.

When you profound a nuc, there must be livings bees. What you talk is from egg to forager.

Bees start to forage at the age of 2-3 weeks. In 6 weeks they use to be dead.

***

Like I said, take necessary food from big hive and do not feed the nuc. It only atracts robbers.
If nuc has not pollen in its frames, take pollen frame fom big hive.

But it is summer now. Bees get food from nature. What do you do with bees if they do not get nectar and pollen from landscape. Then you are in desert or in polar ice area.

.

Jim134 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2012, 08:02:55 pm »

Common mistakes that cause Nucs to fail:

. Split too early before temperatures are consistently warm 50-70F.
. Start with too little brood and bees. Chilled brood,or neglected brood
due to low worker population.
. Queen is not accepted or Nuc is allowed to raise their own.
. Become overcrowded and swarms before additional frames are added

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Jim134 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 04, 2012, 08:27:56 pm »

Quote from: Finski on July 04, 2012, 06:50:12 pm

But it is summer now. Bees get food from nature. What do you do with bees if they do not get nectar and pollen from landscape. Then you are in desert or in polar ice area.
.

But their little to no flow on in New England in the 2st week July and August Next flow is about the 1st week of September for about 6 weeks or so about 1st or 2st week of October will be the first frost and be to cool for wax building

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Finski · « **Reply #14 on:** July 05, 2012, 02:26:03 am »

.
Jim, we were talking just now that is it good time in July to profound a nuc.
Anser is yes. It is best month. Mainhives are at their biggest, honey production will not be disturbed.

A small hive is too slow to build up, but when you aid them with emereging brood frames, the nuc rises like rocket.

It is not now Spring or September. It is July.

And for build up the most importamnt thing is insulation and finger size entarnace ventilaition. For God sake, don't use mesh floor in nucs.

Nucs wax building? Let the big hive draw foundations.

.In a flow big hive draws one foundation box in 3 days.

.

Finski · « **Reply #15 on:** July 05, 2012, 02:36:45 am »

Quote from: Jim 134 on July 04, 2012, 08:27:56 pm

But their little to no flow on in New England in the 2st week July and August Next flow is about the 1st week of September for about 6 weeks or so about 1st or 2st week of October will be the first frost and be to cool for wax building

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

You live in difficult place

- In my cottage year raspberry flow stopped 4 days ago. Hives hardly fly.
- Fireweed has stare in hot places.
- Just now I jump to car and start to caryy hives to canola field about 10 hectares which started to bloom.
- My flow will stop about 10.8. but red clover gives polen in August and gives power to colony growth.

At the beginning of September I have feeding boxes in hives and hives have no brood any more.

In this month I am goin to get 80 kg honey per hives, if weather allowes that. I have splended pastures here and no other beekeepers are in my pastures.

But Jim, You understand that I have a short summer but I can press all things to go faster than in your Ochtober flow. In Ochtober our bees do not come out any more.

.

Jim134 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2012, 05:43:26 am »

Just remember one thing beekeeping is about location, location, location oh did I say location.
Oh and some times the fall flow is not very good.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Finski · « **Reply #17 on:** July 05, 2012, 04:30:33 pm »

Quote from: Jim 134 on July 05, 2012, 05:43:26 am

Just remember one thing beekeeping is about location, location, location oh did I say location.
Oh and some times the fall flow is not very good.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

I want you to remember just one thing: use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,

I have nursed bees 50 years, I do not know about lacation nothins. That I have learnedr that USA is same location from Florica to Alaska.

In our world location adapted queens are the key of beekeeping. USA know nothing about it.
That is lesson to you location location.

Jim134 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2012, 03:30:11 pm »

Quote from: Finski on July 05, 2012, 04:30:33 pm

Quote from: Jim 134 on July 05, 2012, 05:43:26 am
Just remember one thing beekeeping is about location, location, location oh did I say location.
Oh and some times the fall flow is not very good.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

I want you to remember just one thing: use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,use you brains,

I have nursed bees 50 years, I do not know about lacation nothins. That I have learnedr that USA is same location from Florica to Alaska.

In our world location adapted queens are the key of beekeeping. USA know nothing about it.
That is lesson to you location location.

IMHO If you have good location and good queens for the location you will not have to be nursed bees at all.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Finski · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2012, 03:48:26 pm »

.
YeaH. And if I have a healthy wife in a steady work, I need not to nurse bees.

.

Nature Coast Beek · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2012, 04:24:29 pm »

C'mon Finski...give us the duck, swim quote. :-D