Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: givemeone on June 10, 2010, 02:23:28 am

Title: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 10, 2010, 02:23:28 am
We purchased a starter kit several weeks ago from *******.  (******  $159.00)  Pre-ordered a "Nuc"  ..(113.00)  and then we spent approximately $350 on equipment on the day we picked  up our bees.  

Nothing but trouble since.  One of the nuc frames had two ...extra .....nails put into the top because the top of the frame was broken.  Didn't solve the problem because the top bar pulls apart with the slightest pressure/pull while removing the frame.  Anytime you need to pull the frame from the hive the whole top bar gives away.

Two of the "nuc" frames are plastic??  

Hive beetles!!!   Obviously, we didn't order beetles with our hive, but we've seen 4 on two inspections.  I wasn't even looking for them, so I suspect the whole hive is infected.  Our first hive, so I guess the beetles arrived as a bonus????

Ants...We purchased a  hive top feeder.  Apparently, the ants get a greater benefit from these things than the bees.

edited to delete the name of the company....for what became obvious reasons.

Birds.  Swallows???  Attacking the returning/outgoing bees today.  

I'm worried the bees will not get strong enough to survive the winter with all these problems....????
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Michael Bush on June 10, 2010, 07:08:45 am
Well, equipment breaks and is expensive (I probably shouldn't tell you I wouldn't have bought anything in a beginners kit...) SHB are a fact of life if you have them... they are usually free. :)  Feeding always attracts ants.  It often attracts robbers as well.  Feeding is never a simple "good or bad" thing.  I don't see swallows as an issue nor ants, for that matter in my climate.  Bees have been surviving without our help for millions of years...
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: indypartridge on June 10, 2010, 08:10:06 am
Michael summed it up well. I'd bet that you probably also got some free varroa mites. Dealing with pests is part of beekeeping. I've got some boxes with both plastic and wood frames - no big deal. If one of your frames is bad, you can eventually work it over to a side and then replace it.

The worst thing my bees have had to deal with is my fumbling attempts to keep them. I'd like to think I've gotten better over the years, but I still make mistakes, am still clueless in some situations, but the bees carry on despite me.

Enjoy your bees.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Scadsobees on June 10, 2010, 09:01:56 am
Ditto on all that!

SHB are in my hives, they're a lot like strep or staph...always around but usually only an issue if the health is compromised.  They haven't been an issue in any of my outdoor hives.

Yup, wood and plastic, got 'em both!  On the bright side, the topbars of the plastic frame won't pull off!!  I've had the wood frame do what your's are doing.  I wrapped some wire around top to bottom (I have frame wire, but other would probably work too), worked like a charm, I think that frame is still working.

I don't use feeders much any more.  Hive top feeders are awesome in the fall.  But if you want to feed now, maybe retire the hive top feeder for now and use jars with holes on top of the frames, a package don't need a lot of feed.

Don't have any advice on birds....
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: BeeHopper on June 10, 2010, 09:23:46 am
We purchased a starter kit several weeks ago from Walter T. Kelley.  (Kentucky special  $159.00)  Pre-ordered a "Nuc"  ..(113.00)  and then we spent approximately $350 on equipment on the day we picked  up our bees. 

Nothing but trouble since.  One of the nuc frames had two ...extra .....nails put into the top because the top of the frame was broken.  Didn't solve the problem because the top bar pulls apart with the slightest pressure/pull while removing the frame.  Anytime you need to pull the frame from the hive the whole top bar gives away.

Two of the "nuc" frames are plastic??   

Hive beetles!!!   Obviously, we didn't order beetles with our hive, but we've seen 4 on two inspections.  I wasn't even looking for them, so I suspect the whole hive is infected.  Our first hive, so I guess the beetles arrived as a bonus????

Ants...We purchased a  hive top feeder.  Apparently, the ants get a greater benefit from these things than the bees.

Birds.  Swallows???  Attacking the returning/outgoing bees today. 

I'm worried the bees will not get strong enough to survive the winter with all these problems....????

Welcome to the Wonderful World Of Beekeeping  :evil:

Find a Local Beekeeper to be your Mentor before you end up buying Goldfish or something.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Titus on June 10, 2010, 10:51:53 am
I saw other nucs from Kellys this year will ALL the same problems.  They got some bad nucs from their supplier.  If you contacted them soon enough to complain, they worked out a deal with the supplier to make it right.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: wd on June 10, 2010, 01:02:57 pm
Goldfish? I like lion heads...

Can you repair the frame? wire and nails, staples a brace?
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: greenbtree on June 10, 2010, 01:20:40 pm
It's a tough way to start out I admit, but in a way it's good - there is a lot of bad to go with the good with beekeeping, or any endeavor dealing with living things (don't even get me started on horsebreeding).  This is my first season - my first hive dwindled and died.  Tried a bunch of stuff including buying a new queen, nothing worked.  My son's hive we split and both are going gangbusters - we got them both at the same place and at the same time.  If you are uncomfortable dealing with issues it's better to find out now and hundreds of dollars in rather than later and thousands of dollars.  What if you were up to 6 hives and had a really bad winter and lost them all.  Would you be comfortable starting over?

JC
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: John Schwartz on June 10, 2010, 01:59:43 pm
We purchased a starter kit several weeks ago from Walter T. Kelley.  (Kentucky special  $159.00)  Pre-ordered a "Nuc"  ..(113.00)  and then we spent approximately $350 on equipment on the day we picked  up our bees. 

If you find that you really enjoy beekeeping over a year or two, I'd highly encourage you to build your own stuff. We're making boxes, lids/bottoms, and frames for about $30 or less total for complete 4-box hive (plus your time if you've got it). Sure beats paying thru the nose for the equipment. To be clear, it took us a year to get things figured out and just right as the boys and I are definitely not mechanically/wood-working inclined. :)
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Kathyp on June 10, 2010, 02:25:35 pm
frames come apart.  did it to two of mine when i check the other day.  it's part of the fun.  wait 'until you do it with one that heavy with honey!  :-)

we find bees crammed in walls, trees, barrels, and (JP) stereo speakers!  they will survive your equipment if they are healthy.  just work the broken, or not so great stuff out as you go along. 

welcome to beekeeping!
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Bee Happy on June 10, 2010, 03:51:08 pm
I thought dealing with issues and challenges was part of the joy - sorta.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: BeeHopper on June 10, 2010, 04:42:08 pm
I thought dealing with issues and challenges was part of the joy - sorta.

It is  :)

Some folks just give up too easily in my area, the problem lies in the learning curve and patience. With the exception of a few, every Beek ought to have a local Mentor so that the tiniest of issues do not become overwhelming. The OP seems to have gotten hit with a few right off the bat.  :-\
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: dirtfarmer101 on June 10, 2010, 05:45:35 pm
Yes...Wow...I also started with two nucs from Walter Kelley Co., probably the same Saturday you bought yours.  I have been thrilled with them. They have grown unbelievably fast. I bought one extra queen to speed up an early split. I cut out extra queen cells to use in even more two-frame splits. I have made all my own equipment except for the frames.  I have sold enough starts to break even for everything I bought.  I now have ten young starts in my yard, with zero invested. I expect they will build up before winter so I'll have ten wintered nucs next spring.  Yes..Some of the frames I received in my original nucs were sort-of crummy, but it certainly didn't hurt anything.  I have not seen any beetles, but I'm sure I have some.  That comes with it.  Beekeeping is just like everything else in life. It's whatever you make of it.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 11, 2010, 12:05:09 am
Thanks for all the replies, suggestions.  Some of the problems have been self-inflicted.  (accidentally putting 9 frames in a 10 frame box....)   The bees used the extra space to build out the comb...which promptly fell/broke off on the second inspection.  disaster.....disaster.....disaster...spent a lot of time watching it after removing it.  Pretty sure the queen was not on there, but we lost a lot of capped brood, eggs, and larva. 

I can't imagine trying to fix the broken frame with hundreds of bees crawling all over it.   I get more and more comfortable every day, because our bees seem to be very patient with my ineptitude....but they seem immune to smoke.  Little beasts will buzz, but usually not move a whole lot when smoked.  I guess I could "shake" them off, but they seem to have a hard time working themselves out of the grass/each other.

A $113.00 "nuc" should not have a broken frame.  And it shouldn't have hive beetles.  Just my opinion as a newbee. 

I guess the birds are a part of life/etc....  it's just not fun to watch them flying around in the evening and thinking that they are filling up on bees.

I don't think I'll buy a "nuc" again. I'll try "packaged" bees in the spring.  We ordered some bettle traps and a "jar" feeder for our new hives..  Hopefully we'll resolve the ant issue and deal with the beetles.  I really don't want to resort to chemicals.

The bees, on the other hand, really don't seem to bothered a whole bunch about all my worries. 

Activity is up..I need some sort of GPS tracker to figure out where they are going.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 11, 2010, 12:12:24 am
We purchased a starter kit several weeks ago from Walter T. Kelley.  (Kentucky special  $159.00)  Pre-ordered a "Nuc"  ..(113.00)  and then we spent approximately $350 on equipment on the day we picked  up our bees. 

Nothing but trouble since.  One of the nuc frames had two ...extra .....nails put into the top because the top of the frame was broken.  Didn't solve the problem because the top bar pulls apart with the slightest pressure/pull while removing the frame.  Anytime you need to pull the frame from the hive the whole top bar gives away.

Two of the "nuc" frames are plastic??   

Hive beetles!!!   Obviously, we didn't order beetles with our hive, but we've seen 4 on two inspections.  I wasn't even looking for them, so I suspect the whole hive is infected.  Our first hive, so I guess the beetles arrived as a bonus????

Ants...We purchased a  hive top feeder.  Apparently, the ants get a greater benefit from these things than the bees.

Birds.  Swallows???  Attacking the returning/outgoing bees today. 

I'm worried the bees will not get strong enough to survive the winter with all these problems....????

Welcome to the Wonderful World Of Beekeeping  :evil:

Find a Local Beekeeper to be your Mentor before you end up buying Goldfish or something.


Not sure what this means.  New to bees.  Studied up before taking the leap.  didn't expect so many problems 2 weeks in...

And I do have a Koi pond.  Heron problem, but I've figured it out.


thanks for all your wonderful advice!  I'm guessing the internet is your friend.

thanks again.
Doug





Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Bee Happy on June 11, 2010, 12:17:47 am
:) attack the issues one at a time, each issue is (sorta) a separate problem.  if the bad frame is a problem you could cut it out and put it in a new frame with rubber bands, the bees will clean it up.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: fish_stix on June 11, 2010, 12:46:07 am
There are 2 types of beehives; those that have hive beetles and those that will have beetles. Your supplier does not plan on shipping you hive beetles, and he doesn't lay awake at night dreaming of ways to get you into beetle farming. They are a fact of life that you have to deal with. If they don't come with the hive they will arrive shortly after you buy it and take it home. As far as the broken frame goes, fix it. I get broken frames in my hives too. Too bad! This is beekeeping, not kindergarten. You'll be called on to fix many things that you never thought would break.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: BeeHopper on June 11, 2010, 08:53:48 am
We purchased a starter kit several weeks ago from Walter T. Kelley.  (Kentucky special  $159.00)  Pre-ordered a "Nuc"  ..(113.00)  and then we spent approximately $350 on equipment on the day we picked  up our bees. 

Nothing but trouble since.  One of the nuc frames had two ...extra .....nails put into the top because the top of the frame was broken.  Didn't solve the problem because the top bar pulls apart with the slightest pressure/pull while removing the frame.  Anytime you need to pull the frame from the hive the whole top bar gives away.

Two of the "nuc" frames are plastic??   

Hive beetles!!!   Obviously, we didn't order beetles with our hive, but we've seen 4 on two inspections.  I wasn't even looking for them, so I suspect the whole hive is infected.  Our first hive, so I guess the beetles arrived as a bonus????

Ants...We purchased a  hive top feeder.  Apparently, the ants get a greater benefit from these things than the bees.

Birds.  Swallows???  Attacking the returning/outgoing bees today. 

I'm worried the bees will not get strong enough to survive the winter with all these problems....????

Welcome to the Wonderful World Of Beekeeping  :evil:

Find a Local Beekeeper to be your Mentor before you end up buying Goldfish or something.


Not sure what this means.  New to bees.  Studied up before taking the leap.  didn't expect so many problems 2 weeks in...

And I do have a Koi pond.  Heron problem, but I've figured it out.


thanks for all your wonderful advice!  I'm guessing the internet is your friend.

thanks again.
Doug







The Goldfish comment was basically saying to hang in there , don't give up without at least having another Beek to assist you in person. And if you did give up, Goldfish are easier to handle.  :-D

Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 12, 2010, 03:42:11 am
Thanks for all the replies.  We are working through our problems.   1 at a time.  The advice/knowledge we get from the forum is very helpful and keeps us from worrying a whole bunch.  The bees seem to be doing well..

I've never done this before, so if the majority thinks it is "normal" for a "nuc" colony to come with broken frames and hive beetles...then...so be it.  If you think it shouldn't be a problem/issue for a complete beginner who has never dealt with bees before...then i respectfully disagree.

Also, although I know little about SHB...(learning more every day)  I think it is very unlikely that we would have had this problem any time soon if they had not arrived with our bees.  There is probably not another hive within 1 or 2 miles of our hive.  I've never seen a creature similar to it in our garden. 
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 12, 2010, 03:52:14 am
There are 2 types of beehives; those that have hive beetles and those that will have beetles. Your supplier does not plan on shipping you hive beetles, and he doesn't lay awake at night dreaming of ways to get you into beetle farming. They are a fact of life that you have to deal with. If they don't come with the hive they will arrive shortly after you buy it and take it home. As far as the broken frame goes, fix it. I get broken frames in my hives too. Too bad! This is beekeeping, not kindergarten. You'll be called on to fix many things that you never thought would break.

Helpful.  I can't believe amazing folks like yourself even exist ....and then still find the time to be so gracious to share all your knowledge.  thanks.



Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: JP on June 12, 2010, 07:26:20 am
Thanks for all the replies.  We are working through our problems.   1 at a time.  The advice/knowledge we get from the forum is very helpful and keeps us from worrying a whole bunch.  The bees seem to be doing well..

I've never done this before, so if the majority thinks it is "normal" for a "nuc" colony to come with broken frames and hive beetles...then...so be it.  If you think it shouldn't be a problem/issue for a complete beginner who has never dealt with bees before...then i respectfully disagree.

Also, although I know little about SHB...(learning more every day)  I think it is very unlikely that we would have had this problem any time soon if they had not arrived with our bees.  There is probably not another hive within 1 or 2 miles of our hive.  I've never seen a creature similar to it in our garden. 

No one is saying it is normal or even acceptable to buy equipment such as you did with a broken frame. If this made you uncomfortable, take it up with the supplier, whose interest should be in satisfying you. Ask them to send you another frame that is in perfectly good shape and swap this one out with the broken one. It is unfortunate this occurred but whenever you are dealing with humans, mistakes are part of the equation. Responsible humans do their very best to correct their mistakes.

With all due respect, in the future, if you have a problem with a supplier, please take it up with them, and work it out amongst yourselves.

"Also, although I know little about SHB...(learning more every day)  I think it is very unlikely that we would have had this problem any time soon if they had not arrived with our bees.  There is probably not another hive within 1 or 2 miles of our hive.  I've never seen a creature similar to it in our garden. "

OK, so you have seen a few shbs, a fact of life if you're a beekeeper. Try not to panic. Just to let you know, Every hive I have ever run across has at least a few, some more than a few, some much more than that. I see them even in swarms I've shook. This little beetle is opportunistic. A healthy, strong and vibrant honey bee colony can handle some living amongst them.

You mentioned the bees seem to be doing fine, well, there you go.

Welcome to bee keeping.


...JP


Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: MustbeeNuts on June 12, 2010, 09:10:26 am
Hi, my take is everyone has a few beetles in the box, its a fact of nature, yes even a nice new nuke has them, and you will find that packages can also arrive with that friendly little beetle. As a hive grows in strength they chase the beetles aways. Yes I can see dissapointment in a broken frame. And yes you should expect good equipement. But I can say frames can and do come apart easily. glue lets go,,nails pull out. Those nasty bees will propalis them so hard glue just cant stand a chance. I have a few frames that come apart every inspection, my fix is to replace it when the brood hatches. a small loss of eggs but its gone/ Around here there are Nucs going for up to 150.00 so to me 113. is a great price. 
I would think by now you would have transfered it to a standard hive, that would be your chance to make the change, just shake the bees off and replace with a new frame. Your going to need to buy frames and supers anyway?
This is my third year, and there is always some gliche in keeping bees, some of which you are experiencing now. There will be more. Once you take it all in stride its a lot more fun. Its only as rewarding as you make it. As far as the other hives being a couple miles away. Remember the monarch butterfly, it migrates to central america every year. I think a beetle should be able to make it a couple miles. :)
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: scdw43 on June 12, 2010, 11:38:59 pm
Get some tightbond III glue, the next time the frame pulls up squirt some on the end bar and push the two together the frame is fixed in 2 hours. As far as SHB's go, keep the hive strong with plenty of bees to cover the drawn frames.  SHB's are not interested in foundation, no place to hide.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 12:30:15 am
I appreciate everybody's help.  Sorry if I came off as some sort of "whiner..."  which I guess I did although that was not my intention.  Most of the replies to this thread have been extremely helpful and makes me worry less about the problems we've encountered.  A couple were less than helpful, so I felt the need to respond.  In retrospect.....

So, a lot of the things I'm dealing with are normal.  I didn't realize that when I created this post.  Sorry if it bothered some folks.  But, none of this is covered in "beekeeping for dummies."  Small Hive beetles are talked about and it suggests contacting your State Apiary Inspector....therefore, I figured that beetles were a "big" problem.  Now I know better.  The broken frame is on it's way out...just really busy with bees right now.

And...we talked to our supplier about the condition of our "nuc..."  I guess we disagree.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 12:40:05 am
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9273/002uv.th.jpg) (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/002uv.jpg/)

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Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 12:59:42 am
Broken frame.

(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5972/img0391ar.jpg) (http://img63.imageshack.us/i/img0391ar.jpg/)

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Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 01:13:42 am
Weirdness.  This broke off on inspection #2.  this was the biggest "Disaster."  This was some "extra" comb that was attached to a frame that was already drawn out.  I messed up and left only 9 frames in the hive body when I initially installed the nuc...I guess this is what bees do with extra space.  As I pulled the frame out, the entire piece broke off and fell into the hive.  I had no idea what to do, so I pulled it out.  And then we spent the next 15 minutes scooping/coaxing bees off of this and into the hive.  We didn't want to lose our queen so we spent a lot of time combing through the grass and returning bees....

(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/576/img0402aq.jpg) (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/img0402aq.jpg/)

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Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 01:38:27 am
Success????

(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5318/img0387ao.jpg) (http://img199.imageshack.us/i/img0387ao.jpg/)

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Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: elusive on June 13, 2010, 01:44:30 am
Disaster, disaster, disaster.  Frames cost about a dollar. That one can be fixed very easily, and if it's such a problem, you are in the wrong business. This is not a perfect world. Things break. Things are not perfect. Disaster, disaster, disaster. You have NOTHING to fret about. Nobody died. Nobody repossessed your home.   If this is the most serious "disaster" you have in your life you are a very sheltered person.  If such a tiny thing is a "disaster" I would certainly not want to sell anything to you.  

Note from Beemaster

Although I see this "person" being permanently banned,he has been banned 10 days by Buzzbee. Let's see what pearls of wisdom comes out his mouth when he gets back - personally, I can't wait to ban his attitude. If life is bringing him hardships, don't take it out here on the members. If you can't keep attitudes at bay, stay away from here.

This to other new members is NOT the way to post here, just letting this post hang up like a poster child for WHAT NOT TO DO for a while, but don't expect this poster to be around long.

Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 01:46:26 am
Comb that broke off from previous pics..while it was still attached.

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/8790/img0379dl.jpg) (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/img0379dl.jpg/)

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Our unhappy "hot" bees this evening.......at around midnight.  I wonder how they choose who gets stuck outside?


(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1780/img0404o.jpg) (http://img94.imageshack.us/i/img0404o.jpg/)

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Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 01:53:40 am
Disaster, disaster, disaster.  Frames cost about a dollar. That one can be fixed very easily, and if it's such a problem, you are in the wrong business. This is not a perfect world. Things break. Things are not perfect. Disaster, disaster, disaster. You have NOTHING to fret about. Nobody died. Nobody repossessed your home.   If this is the most serious "disaster" you have in your life you are a very sheltered person.  If such a tiny thing is a "disaster" I would certainly not want to sell anything to you.  

Yet another internet jerk.  Wow!  Ok.  I never expected this many on a beekeeping forum.  So...maybe not a disaster.   I've never kept bees before.  I certainly didn't expect the frame to break the first time I pulled it out of a box.  I guess somebody as "worldly" as yourself would have just shrugged it off.  Me, I was worried about killing bees...or a swarm of pee'd off bees.  Maybe not likely, but not an unreasonable thing to worry about the first time you look into your hive.  So much for family friendly...lot of jerks on here.  Yeah, frames are cheap.  So, I'll take this frame, toss it to the side, and insert "new..."  nice..genius.
I'm starting to think that a lot of the folks who post on here are people who work for companies that sell sub-standard products.  and then rag on those who might complain on a public forum. 
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Bee Happy on June 13, 2010, 02:06:20 am
with all the brood you have on that broken frame, I'd put up with it till they hatch - it looks like in spite of the problems - by that pic - your queen is a goer!   It might explain why they didnt throw it out too - I bet the other side is just as full of brood. Your biggest problem is soon to be having enough room for all the bees.
You found a very good place to seek advice in spite of the occasional cranky member; I'll second the local mentor advice too - can't possibly hurt. I have a potential mentor down the street from me, but I don't like asking him down much because he's got a few physical problems. It's good to know I have someone to call on if I need someone to put eyes right on the situation though.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 02:15:06 am
with all the brood you have on that broken frame, I'd put up with it till they hatch - it looks like in spite of the problems - by that pic - your queen is a goer!   It might explain why they didnt throw it out too - I bet the other side is just as full of brood. Your biggest problem is soon to be having enough room for all the bees.
You found a very good place to seek advice in spite of the occasional cranky member; I'll second the local mentor advice too - can't possibly hurt. I have a potential mentor down the street from me, but I don't like asking him down much because he's got a few physical problems. It's good to know I have someone to call on if I need someone to put eyes right on the situation though.

Thanks, I'll post pics and just ask for advice from now on.  I guess my attempt at humour/melodrama...while not intending to be a b****ch session certainly seems to have touched a nerve with folks.  I belong to/post on several forums.  The hostility here really surprised me.  But, after some research, I'm beginning to see the actual cause.  Lots of hobbyists on here that aren't. 
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 02:20:48 am
with all the brood you have on that broken frame, I'd put up with it till they hatch - it looks like in spite of the problems - by that pic - your queen is a goer!   It might explain why they didnt throw it out too - I bet the other side is just as full of brood. Your biggest problem is soon to be having enough room for all the bees.
You found a very good place to seek advice in spite of the occasional cranky member; I'll second the local mentor advice too - can't possibly hurt. I have a potential mentor down the street from me, but I don't like asking him down much because he's got a few physical problems. It's good to know I have someone to call on if I need someone to put eyes right on the situation though.

Can anyone explain why the comb on some of the frames is black? 
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: wd on June 13, 2010, 02:58:42 am
with all the brood you have on that broken frame, I'd put up with it till they hatch - it looks like in spite of the problems - by that pic - your queen is a goer!   It might explain why they didnt throw it out too - I bet the other side is just as full of brood. Your biggest problem is soon to be having enough room for all the bees.
You found a very good place to seek advice in spite of the occasional cranky member; I'll second the local mentor advice too - can't possibly hurt. I have a potential mentor down the street from me, but I don't like asking him down much because he's got a few physical problems. It's good to know I have someone to call on if I need someone to put eyes right on the situation though.

Can anyone explain why the comb on some of the frames is black? 

It turns darker with age
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 13, 2010, 03:11:04 am
thanks..I did not know that.   :)
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: iddee on June 13, 2010, 09:03:44 am
I notice that Elusive's post was his first. With an attitude like that, I have to wonder if he came here after being ran off from other sites. I see no reason to ever introduce yourself in such a manner.

Givemeone, hang around awhile and you will find most members are friendly and helpful. We all started at one time or other, and likely asked a few questionable questions at the time.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Irwin on June 13, 2010, 09:49:47 am
Disaster, disaster, disaster.  Frames cost about a dollar. That one can be fixed very easily, and if it's such a problem, you are in the wrong business. This is not a perfect world. Things break. Things are not perfect. Disaster, disaster, disaster. You have NOTHING to fret about. Nobody died. Nobody repossessed your home.   If this is the most serious "disaster" you have in your life you are a very sheltered person.  If such a tiny thing is a "disaster" I would certainly not want to sell anything to you.  
What is your problem givemeone is a new member with a problem and asked for help and info that was all. And for your first post your off to a bad start.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: JP on June 13, 2010, 10:02:09 am
Givemeone, you did right by removing that piece of comb, it just would have made for a big mess inside the hive. Bees are so resourceful they would have used that fallen piece by repairing it the best they could but creating an unworkable mess for you.

I can tell you care about your bees immensely as you were diligent in placing them back into the hive.

In looking at the 2ND to last pic, it appears the bees weren't too fond of that frame/foundation. Perhaps it was an older frame that had a thin or even no wax coating. Sometimes bees can be a little particular when it comes to plastic foundation. Instead of drawing from the imprinted cells of that frame, they created their own comb section (the one that fell down).

I would replace this frame (if they continue to build outwards on that frame) with one of your bees wax foundation/wood frames that I see pictured, they should take to those just fine.

I mentioned taking things up with the supplier as opposed to publicly bashing them without giving them the opportunity to rectify the situation. Its the right thing to do.

Now, if a supplier is uncooperative and gives pitiful customer service, we would like to be warned about that kind of dealing.

The response from this "Elusive" person is not typical of the member's posts on this forum. Please ignore that person's post.

Sounds like you have the makings of becoming an excellent bee keeper.

Stick with us, we really are here to help and we do have your best interest at heart.


...JP

Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: BjornBee on June 13, 2010, 10:25:30 am
givemeone,

Not all think that nucs (or at least all hives) have SHB. And I don't think that it should be acceptable to think that you should be getting them in nucs..

The comb in your picture is crap! It certainly is old enough (Looks way too black to me) that chemical buildup and hive health would certainly be an issue.

The broken frame is way out of line.

The pieced together nuc, (One frame of black, one frame of plastic, one frame  broken, etc.) is about the worst nuc I ever seen. Don't let a bunch of others tell you that this is the best you can expect. You bought crap. Shame on the supplier.

And this is the type nuc, that once bought by an unsuspecting new beekeeper, that does not maintain the same regiment of treatment as the beekeeper from which the nuc came from, means the likelyhood of AFB exists.

Sorry guys, givemeone got taken. And the bee industry should expect better than this. No excuse for a nuc like that. Period.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: buzzbee on June 13, 2010, 10:29:51 am
Elusive in post 28 has been responded to. Please do not comment any further on his post,as it gives him what he wants.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: MustbeeNuts on June 13, 2010, 10:34:35 am
 I have had nothing but good help from this site and good people.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: BjornBee on June 13, 2010, 10:39:18 am
Elusive in post 28 has been responded to. Please do not comment any further on his post,as it gives him what he wants.

Who are you talking too?

If it was me, "elusive" is not the only one I was referring too. Others have commented that SHB are a fact of life and should be expected. Not true at all, and not true to expect in your purchased nucs.

Having more then one respond to posts shows not only the original poster how wrong he was, but also reaffirms the beekeeper reading such posts. Suggesting you are now limiting a respond to the "first come, first commented" and repeated opinions are to be not offered, is wrong in my opinion.

But I'll keep that in mind for the future.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: G3farms on June 13, 2010, 11:37:22 am
As far as the broken frame goes, what I would do is put a little glue on it, take a couple of pieces of tie wire and wrap them around the broken pieces and twist them tightly together pulling the wood closed. Nailing on the frame with the bees on it will make them mad and maybe break the comb. Zip ties could be used but I doubt they would pull up tighter than the wire.

Don't even bother with the butt headed replies, those people are just wanting to get a rise out of you.

Sounds like you will do fine, the bees don't really care if the frame is broken or not.

I will have to agree with BJ about the shape of the nuc you bought, looks like some one just pieced together a bunch of old drawn combs and frames. Not trying to down you here, but next time you buy a nuc or established hive make an inspection of the bees first, frame by frame. If the seller refuses to let you do that walk away.

Hang in there!!

G3
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Shawn on June 13, 2010, 11:38:03 am
givemeone,

Welcome to the beekeeping. When I first started I had all kinds of questions and problems. You could probably search my post and boy did I start out all wrong, well maybe not wrong becuse now Im up to 8 hives and enjoy doing it. Hnag in there and ask all the questions you can. Everyone on this site is great and there is so much wisdom here its unbelievable.

To me the pictures you posted looked good. I tried going foundationless and boy oh boy did I not have a good time with that. Micheal Bush is correct on not buying a starter kit, same question I asked when I got started but what did I do, I went out and bought a starter kit. Im not good at fixing things or making things so it gets a little expensive in the long run but when you go outside and sit and watch the bees flying in and out you sure can have a relaxing time.

Once again hang in there and dont get discouraged because its all worth it.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: iddee on June 13, 2010, 11:38:23 am
He wasn't referring to your post, BJ, he was responding to mine and Irwins. We replied to a troll and now that it is in the open, there's no reason to let it live. Your post is spot on. The supplier of the nuc was just throwing out his trash. He should be exposed.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: MacfromNS on June 13, 2010, 10:56:30 pm
This is my 3rd year. I have 4 hives now but I have never seen a beetle. I do have
a few mites.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: greenbtree on June 14, 2010, 01:57:48 am
Save the beeswax from that piece that fell off. It is nice, fresh, clean beeswax.  If the bees continue to build out from that foundation in a weird way, brushing the bare foundation with melted beeswax will make it more acceptable to them.  I am finding sometimes they just don't like certain frames - the wax has gotten thinner over the plastic, whatever.  Putting on a new coat of wax helps and can save an otherwise good frame.  I have had a few "angel wings" sticking out from the surface of some of my frames too - none quite that big though.  Breaking them off is definitely the way to go.  Hang in there - the learning curve is quite steep at first.

JC
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: givemeone on June 14, 2010, 02:44:23 am
Once again, thanks for all the help.  Much appreciated.  I think that there might be a few folks on here who might be associated with the "other/supplier side" of the business...so, I accept their criticism ..until it becomes personal.

I'm glad to hear from people who don't think damaged equipment and infested bees/hives are normal.  I was beginnning to think I was out of my element.  Anyways, we contacted our supplier.  They suggested gradually moving the damaged frame to the outside of the box, and suggested bettle traps for the beetle problem.   They offered no other remedies to make it right..and our bees really do seem to be doing pretty well, so I guess we'll move on.

Right now, I don't know a whole lot about bees.  But, It looks like our current queen definitely has what it takes to overcome some of the problems we've encountered.  

I was considering using a zip tie to fix the broken frame.  Seems like a quick fix?  Wondering if anybody else has had success fixing broken frames this way.  

Bettle traps go in next inspection and the "top feeder" goes out due to the ants.  Doesn't seem to be a way to keep them out with a top feeder.  


Theses bees seem to be oblivious to smoke.  I'm probably doing it wrong.  But they seem real reluctant to move.


Much more questions to come.  
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: JP on June 14, 2010, 03:17:26 am
You could use a zip tie to fix the frame if you like. Shouldn't be a problem.


...JP
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Shawn on June 14, 2010, 09:22:13 am
I used a rubber band to fix one of my plastic frames I cut too far trying to turn it into a foundationless frame. The bees built right over the rubber band.
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Scadsobees on June 14, 2010, 09:46:51 am
Question:
Some recommend using wood glue on a broken frame that was in the hive. 

Does this really work?

I've never tried it so don't know if it would work, but it seems to me that all of the wood surfaces would be propolized or waxed-up and wouldn't stick....

???

Thanks, Rick
Title: Re: Beekeeping. wow!!
Post by: Scadsobees on June 14, 2010, 09:58:12 am

If it was me, "elusive" is not the only one I was referring too. Others have commented that SHB are a fact of life and should be expected. Not true at all, and not true to expect in your purchased nucs.


I wouldn't know about the purchased nucs since I've never purchased any, and only have purchased 2 packages that I don't think had SHB and have only done splits and swarms and the little buggers are still in my area and not going to leave.  So they are a fact of live for me and to be expected.  I'm not sure what a package or nuc supplier in SHB country can really do to guarantee that there would be no beetles in a hive, other than spending a lot of time going over each cell making sure there isn't a shb hiding.  (I know, prevention is the key here, but not guanteed)

But the other side of that is that I've NEVER had an issue with them with my outdoor hives in all that, and as stated before, a healthy hive will not usually have problems with them, so there is not any reason for panic!! (maybe a tiny bit of worry but only in the form of keeping an eye on them when you get in the hive :) )

Keep in mind, when on the forums you need to expect a lot of experiences from a lot of different sources and opinions from each of them as well... :)

Rick