Removal of bees inside a tree?

[dfizer]

Got a call from someone wanting the bees out of a huge pine tree in their yard but they don't want to cut the tree down.  How do I go about driving the bees out of the tree with out cutting it down?  What is the concept of a trap out and how do you get the queen out of the hollowed out tree?

Please advise -

David

[iddee]

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,20301.0.html

[dfizer]

Fantastic!  I'll be setting one up tomorrow evening!  Great information!

David

[Kathyp]

you might suggest that the have an Arborist look at the tree after you are done.  my experience is that a tree with a hole large enough to support a hive, is often unsound.  this might not matter if the tree is on the back 40, but if it's close to a home or barn....better safe than sorry.

[dfizer]

Good suggestion!  From what I've read and seen through the videos it's gonna take several weeks to complete this trapout.  After the bees are going maybe he'll want to consider taking the tree down.

Thank you!

David

[dfizer]

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,20301.0.html

A few questions have come up - the trapout master recommends to put a frame of eggs in the nuc that is set up but never mentions if that frame of eggs should be put in the nuc with a few nurse bees from the parent hive or not.  I would only guess that the frame of eggs is put in with some nurse bees - am I right?

Next question - do you use any lemongrass oil as an attractant?  If so how much and how do you use it?  Perhaps on the end of a q-tip then toss it in the nuc?

Please advise.

David

[iddee]

Nurse bees or not makes no difference. I shake the frame until most nurse bees are off, but some leave them all on. Same results.

I don't use LGO. The brood pheromone on the frame is the attractant.

[dfizer]

ok - so here's how it went -

i arrive and find an 80ft white pine with the owner standing in front of it awaiting my arrival.  He points out a hole about 20 or so feet up where bees are enter and exiting.  I look all around to see if there are any other holes where bees are using.  I see none.  I set up the ladder and proceeded to set up the supports that the nuc box eventually would rest on.  This was just to the right of the hole.  I then make my 1/8 inch hardware cloth cone that's sticking through the piece of ply wood.  I screw that over the hole then fill in all space between the tree and the ply wood.  Several bees begin coming out of the hardware cloth cone hole and several returning bees start trying to find a way back in.  At this point I set up the nuc box with two frames of eggs / larvae and three frames of completely undrawn bare pierco frames in it.  I wish I had three frames of drawn comb but unfortunately I didn't so I set it up with what I had. 

I watched the cone and nuc from the ground for a pretty good while and I didn't see any bees going into the nuc box although there were a couple hundred bees in the air circling around trying to get back into their tree home.  I really hope they take up residency in the nuc with the eggs in it. 

I tried to get the nuc box as close to the board holding the cone as possible and it was touching on the edge however the bees cannot just walk across like in the video of Iddee.

Iddee trap out video - VERY GOOD!

I look forward to checking back in a week to 10 days to see if there are any bees coming out of the nuc box and if there are still bees exiting the cone. 

I'm pretty happy all in all with the set up.  Now I'll just wait and see what happens. 

David   

[Moots]

David,
NO PICTURES?  :(

Based on your description I think it sounds all good, with the possible exception of your Nuc placement.  You really want the landing board of that guy touching the base of your cone, or at least a clear path for them to crawl from the base of the cone to the Nuc.  As I heard someone say giving a talk on trapouts...."the bees aren't going to jump to the box".   :laugh:

It might work, I think proper placement just helps it along.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[iddee]

In a week to 10 days, the nuc probably won't hold all the bees. You need to get back in 4 to 7 days with another nuc.

Move 2 or 3 queen cells from the nuc to the new box and start another box.

I still don't understand why anyone uses a nuc to put 5 to 15 lbs. of bees in. Can someone please explain this to me? I notice most folks setting traps are doing this. I have never started a trap with a nuc.

[dfizer]

Hello Iddee -

It's really pretty simple - the reason I set this up with a nuc is space.  I have two pieces of angle iron that do not span far enough out to hold a full 10 frame hive therefore I had to use a nuc.  I could barely fit the nuc on the two pieces of angle iron.  I used two of the hanging basket supports of iron.   With the curve of the tree I could barely fit the nuc on the two pieces.  Furthermore it was over 20 feet in the air so carrying a complete hive up the extension ladder would have been difficult at best.  I'll take a pic when I go back to replace the nuc in 4 or 5 days then add it to this thread.

Trust me - I would have loved to have been able to put a whole 10 frame hive 24 feet up in the air or so.  It would have made my life a lot easier.  Perhaps I'll invest in a couple of angle iron pieces that reach 3 feet out or so then I can put a whole hive up there.

Thanks again for making that step by step video of exactly what to do.  It made my job a lot easier!

David

[iddee]

Where there's a will, there's a way.

  20 feet up

[dfizer]

That's pretty dang sweet.  I don't have the luxury of all that space and a flat wall.... but as you say - where there's a will there's a way. 

One question - when I get back to my set up and I take the frames with the queen cells out what should I replace them with?  I assume that I'd want to replace them with more more frames and at least one frame of eggs/larva, is this correct?  Could I replace the entire nuc with a replacement nuc containing the same three pierco frames (undrawn) and two frames of eggs/larva?  I think it would be just as easy to take a whole new nuc up than to try to replace individual frames. 

Hell, who knows I may try to figure out how to get a bottom board and deep up the ladder!   :)  If I do, I'll just take the 5 frames from the nuc and install them into the new 10 frame deep along with 5 new frames and let it be for a while.  If I do that how long should I wait til I check it again?

Thanks again Iddee for your patience and advice.

David

 

[iddee]

You should have a half dozen or more queen cells. I cut a couple out and stick them onto a frame in the new box. That way they are that far along before emerging. Having another nuc ready and just swapping out would work fine, also. If your box is level, adding a second story to the nuc would work, but may cause trouble when taking down.

The first box will get all the foragers in the first few days. Then the rate will slow, as you only get the younger bees as they convert to foragers.

[dfizer]

Ok - now for a very naive question - what is the proper way to cut out and transplant some of the queen cells?  I think I can cut them out ok but how do I get them into the new hive on a frame etc. 

I am going back to the scene on Monday or at the latest Tuesday so that that point I should be able to remove the queen cells and leave a one or two.  I really want this frame of eggs to make some queen cells as this queen is by far my best producer and I'd love to have more like her.

 

[iddee]

Cut out a chunk of comb larger than the cells. Cut a hole in the new frame about the same size. Place the cell in that hole and mash the outer wax into the wax on the new frame until it molds together.

[dfizer]

I cant do that - all my frames are plastic pierco black frames - any suggestions for those kind of frames?

[iddee]

Yes. The local dump will take plastic, although I doubt you will like my suggestion.  :evil:   :-D

I guess you will start with new eggs.

[dfizer]

lol!  Indeed I did not like your suggestion but respect it!   :)  I have used pierco frames for all 4 or 5 years that I have been beekeeping and love them.  I guess I'll just prepare a new nuc with one frame of EGGS and change it out on Monday or Tuesday.  By that time I think I should have at least a couple of capped queen cells.   

[dfizer]

Ok the plot thickens - I went out to the site of the trapout and found that the silicone I put along the bottom of the plywood board had fallen prey to gravity.  I assume that once when I put the silicone along the bottom edge that I didn't get it in there thick enough (or possibly too thick) and it drooped down opening a very small entrance under the plywood.  I had planned to patch this up today however the heavy rains kept me home - tomorrow I'll go out and re-apply.  

At the same time I plan on looking for queen cells - I know what to do if I find queen cells - remove the frame(s) with them and replace with a frames of EGGS.  However I am unsure what to do if I find no queen cells.  If the frame of eggs that was in the nuc originally doesn't have queen cells on it - is it ok to leave it or should I replace it with a new frame of EGGS regardless?  

Please advise.  

My plans are to leave everything in place if I don't have any queen cells.

David

PS - the nuc with the frame of EGGS was installed on Thursday the 6th - so I suspect there will be queen cells.