TBH with tanzanian style trench hive

[BjornBee]

I mentioned having a trench style TBH (tanzanian style - straight sides). I have tried using a bar with and without a "guide". And no doubt, if your going to use a straight sided TBH, use guides. In this photo, is a standard frame top, utilizing a 1 inch guide (side) which the bees have followed and not attached to the sides. Hope this paints a better picture.

[buzzbee]

Quite interesting that they don't flare out the sides once they get lower than the guides Are these top bars the same width as a lang making this essentiaily a horizontal hive?
 With the exception being a lot deeper?
 these things intrigue me a little bit,I dont know why.

[BjornBee]

Quite interesting that they don't flare out the sides once they get lower than the guides Are these top bars the same width as a lang making this essentiaily a horizontal hive?
 With the exception being a lot deeper?
 these things intrigue me a little bit,I dont know why.

Of all the comb I checked, about 10 frames, they connected about a 1 inch section on two of the combs on the one side.

I call this my trench style hive, whether that's correct or not, I do not know. It's two deeps with the ends cut off and connected. It's 21 deep bars long. I guess all TBH's are horiziontal.

I did not measure, but they did build the comb all the way to about an inch from the floor. So it is slightly larger than a traditional frame comb.

[Cindi]

BjornBee.  Now that is one beeeeeaaaautifullllll hunk of comb you got goin' on there. I  loved to see this picture, keep those pictures comin'.  Have a most wonderful and awesomely great day, great healthy wishes for us all.  Cindi

[mlewis48]

Bjorn,
 I  have seen the different types of Tbh from your web site and from the posts that you did on the other site. I want to start a tbh, this year, something different to try. That is a nice frame of comb! My basic question on a tbh is how is the harvest totals different from a Lang. hive?  From what I see is the price of  tbh would have to be cheaper, no frames and foundation to buy. Which is a killer. With the demand for cut comb honey, in my market, it looks like a tbh would  be the way to go. Anyway, any in-put that you could give would be great.
                               Thanks,
                               Marc

[BjornBee]

Marc,
I can not really say about honey production. I do not process alot of honey in my operation. They say the output from TBHs are somewhat lower, but I think the trade-off is well worth it. It's the best thing to walk out and slice off a comb of honey for the dinner table when your having guests over. My TBH's are for learning and research, and so I do not take honey off. I just will split this coming year into more, then more, then more.... :shock: Of course I have a sickness. :-D

[Apis_M_Rescue]

Does anyone know if the top bars w/ the side wings would be suitable in a Langstroth hive in place of frames? This would seem to me similar to a Warre hive in my limited understanding of a Christ or Warre hive. Minus the typical bottom bar of a Lang frame would the bees attach the comb from one top bar used in a Lang hive to another used in next box below or would they keep beespace? I was hoping to use Bjorn's top bars w/ wings in Lang hives but in my inexperience realized bees might just connect wax from underside of the top bars to the top of the next top bar below.     

[buzzbee]

Boy it sure would make it easier to cycle out the old comb wouldn't it? I guess this is one step furtehr than foundationless,being frameless and all.

[BjornBee]

Does anyone know if the top bars w/ the side wings would be suitable in a Langstroth hive in place of frames? This would seem to me similar to a Warre hive in my limited understanding of a Christ or Warre hive. Minus the typical bottom bar of a Lang frame would the bees attach the comb from one top bar used in a Lang hive to another used in next box below or would they keep beespace? I was hoping to use Bjorn's top bars w/ wings in Lang hives but in my inexperience realized bees might just connect wax from underside of the top bars to the top of the next top bar below.     

Yes they will. And that is one of the main problems with a Warre if you were to actually build one as per Warre's protocol and plans.

I really think foundationless (mediums) by the use of full frames gives you all the benefits of clean wax, natural comb, and yet allows the easy removal of frames for inspection, honey harvest, etc.

If you want foundationless comb via a top bar hive system, and want a smaller cavity due to Warre's teachings,....then do yourself a favor. Go with 8 frame medium boxes and foundationless frames.

You will have nice comb, can still make a quilt for on top if that is your thing, you can still undersuper (Although if given a choice, bees will always draw new comb much faster by supering on top), and anything else used for reasoning of promoting one type hive over another for some idea that a particular hive is exclusive to some narrow focused point. Which is not true for almost everything in beekeeping.

[Apis_M_Rescue]

Thanks for confirming from your experience Bjorn. I just came across a Japanese beekeeps site on YouTube. He uses a Warre type system w/ top bar grid. The bees of course did as you said & affixed wax from one box to the top of bars on box below it. The beekeep used a piano wire cutter to cut when harvesting & opening boxes. Using your winged top bars w/ this Japanese beekeeps techniques should work to use minimal amount of wood resource while still being able to preserve comb, inspect/ harvest hives.

The foundationless 8 frame mediums sound like Michael Bush's system. I'm slowly building up in that direction using 10 frames.

, you can still undersuper (Although if given a choice, bees will always draw new comb much faster by supering on top), and anything else used for reasoning of promoting one type hive over another for some idea that a particular hive is exclusive to some narrow focused point. Which is not true for almost everything in beekeeping

What is behind bees making comb faster by supering than under supering? If this is getting off Subject line I'll repost w/ new subject line.

Missed full lunar apogee or perigee larger moon due to clouds but at least needed rains here making fauna for bee season more plentiful :).

[BjornBee]

, you can still undersuper (Although if given a choice, bees will always draw new comb much faster by supering on top), and anything else used for reasoning of promoting one type hive over another for some idea that a particular hive is exclusive to some narrow focused point. Which is not true for almost everything in beekeeping

What is behind bees making comb faster by supering than under supering? If this is getting off Subject line I'll repost w/ new subject line.

Missed full lunar apogee or perigee larger moon due to clouds but at least needed rains here making fauna for bee season more plentiful :).

Apis,

I did many tests involving taking five frame nucs and adding a box below and a box above the five frames. The bees always drew the comb first in the box above the five frame nuc box before touching the one below.

I further tested doing the same test, so as to discount a preference, and added a five frame box below a 5 frame nuc, and added a box above another nuc. I repeated this 4 times.  And clearly, the stacked nuc boxes that had the foundation above the 5 frames, were drawn in half the time as the nucs that had the box below the 5 frames.

Comb building is greatest during the main flow here. This covers the period of time of later April, May, and the first half of June. During much of this time, we can still have cool night temps. So I think the trapped heat above the 5 frames of bees, allowed the best and most productive comb building on the top box where the temps were probably most beneficial.

I do large amounts of comb building. And the best, straightest, and faster produced comb, is above an existing 5 frame or a double stacked nuc arrangement.

And for those wanting to produce award winning comb honey for the county fair, this is how to do it.  :-D