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Author Topic: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.  (Read 3448 times)

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« on: June 15, 2015, 09:01:10 am »
I have read a lot of comments regarding top bar hives and how bees move vertically not horizontally. I am assuming that the idea is that in a hollow tree the bees move up and down rather than across. My question is that there are plenty of hollow trees that have fallen over. So why is it any different for a swarm of bees to find a new home in a horizontal tree? That said, why is it thought that bees don't move horizontally? I would believe that the comb would get in the way of the cluster and make it more difficult to move but I would think that they would figure out a way around that.

I just realized that I posted this in the wrong forum. Top Bar hives was the next thread down. Sorry
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2015, 01:40:12 pm »
Bees move both horizontally and vertically.  According to Eva Crane the most popular hives for all of time in all locations including Scandinavia and Russia have always been and still are horizontal hives.  Bees live in whatever they find including limbs and fallen trees and soffits...  They easily move horizontally.  My bigger issue is getting them to expand horizontally once they have a comb of honey blocking the queen from moving horizontally.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm#winter
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2015, 09:50:40 pm »
Couldn't you just add more bars before the comb of honey? Expand the brood nest?
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2015, 08:21:13 am »
>Couldn't you just add more bars before the comb of honey? Expand the brood nest?

Yes you can.  Yes you should.  But if you don't then they tend to not expand the brood nest.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm#management
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 09:36:32 pm »
I always add to the brood nest. Maybe it is perception but they seem to build comb faster in the brood nest.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2015, 04:07:32 pm »
>Maybe it is perception but they seem to build comb faster in the brood nest.

I think it's not just perception.  They are much more motivated when there is a gap in the brood nest...
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2015, 09:18:43 pm »
Well that just means I need a lot more 1.25" frames. I am amazed by 2 packages of bees I installed first thing last Sunday morning. I was disgusted that they arrived so late. They have built out comb and back filled it with nectar I am afraid they will be ready to swarm soon if I don't give them more room. I hadn't expected them to take off so quickly. I put them in 6 frame boxes I need to either add a second story or make some long hives for them. The nucleus colonies I got 3 weeks ago are not building as fast.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline shoshannama

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Re: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2015, 11:52:23 pm »
"My bigger issue is getting them to expand horizontally once they have a comb of honey blocking the queen from moving horizontally."

Michael, I know nothing about this, as my tbh teacher here in Hawaii has not mentioned it, nor have I read it except occasionally on this site.  I'd like to know more about this.  It seems like a great way to keep the brood out of the honey which seems to be much more a problem with tbh.  Have you written about this somewhere?  I'd like to read more about it and try it out.

Offline little john

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Re: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2015, 06:04:39 pm »
"My bigger issue is getting them to expand horizontally once they have a comb of honey blocking the queen from moving horizontally."

Michael, I know nothing about this, as my tbh teacher here in Hawaii has not mentioned it, nor have I read it except occasionally on this site.  I'd like to know more about this.  It seems like a great way to keep the brood out of the honey which seems to be much more a problem with tbh.  Have you written about this somewhere?  I'd like to read more about it and try it out.

It isn't just a frame of honey which will keep the queen confined to the brood area - a shortened partition board will do exactly the same job - effectively acting as a Queen Excluder:

Here's an example, from the Bienenkiste hive design:



This photograph has been taken with the hive upside down - behind the (fixed) partition board can be seen the lengthwise starter strips.

LJ
A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping - http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Top bar hives and horizontal/vertical be movement.
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2015, 04:24:46 pm »
>Michael, I know nothing about this, as my tbh teacher here in Hawaii has not mentioned it, nor have I read it except occasionally on this site.  I'd like to know more about this.  It seems like a great way to keep the brood out of the honey which seems to be much more a problem with tbh.  Have you written about this somewhere?  I'd like to read more about it and try it out.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm#management
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin