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Author Topic: Somebody is laying again but what?  (Read 3214 times)

Offline FlexMedia.tv

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Somebody is laying again but what?
« on: September 10, 2016, 12:23:35 pm »
Let me recap! I'm pretty sure I lost the queen in one of my hives. I opened the first brood box and couldn't find any eggs or larvae but I did find capped queen cells and honey. (I'll try to add a picture)



Nothing was happening with the first super I had on so I switched one of the brood frames and waited. I had been feeding them and they were eating like crazy but lately they slowed way down. When I checked there was some activity in the super, a lot of Bees but mostly honey no eggs. So, I took the super off to get back to the brood to check for eggs and I damage some cells because they were on the bottom of the super. Can anyone tell by looking if these are all drone cells?



I'm trying to learn if I have a worker laying and my queen cells didn't make it. I didn't want to mess around with the brood box anymore being nosy and messing things up so I just put the super back on.



Thanks!
Art


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Offline AR Beekeeper

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2016, 03:14:46 pm »
Usually the cells in bur-comb are drone.  You will have to look on the drawn comb in worker cells to see if the eggs are there.  If the cells have larvae in them and they are being capped, check the shape of the capping for typical worker capping.

If those queen cells are viable they will emerge in 8 days from the day they were sealed.  Calculate that date and check to see if they have emerged.  When you need information you can only get by doing an inspection, just do a proper inspection and don't worry about messing things up. 

Offline rwlaw

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2016, 08:00:29 am »
It's only after a hive is hopelesly queenless you'll see LW's, so as long as those q cells are viable the instinct is suppressed. Like AR Beek says check in ten days or so and see if they've been "unzipped" on the bottom, that's evidence that they have emerged. Mating flights are about a week after that and laying starts in a another week.
As far as those cells in the burr comb, the look of the larvae and timing is about right for having been eggs about the time the queen was lost.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 08:14:57 am by rwlaw »
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Offline GSF

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2016, 05:26:24 pm »
A little late but I'll say it anyway. Be very careful when you put the fames back in or the super back on. A lot of times the queen cells well stick down between the frames and they can be easily damaged.
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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2016, 05:49:24 am »
Usually the cells in bur-comb are drone.  You will have to look on the drawn comb in worker cells to see if the eggs are there.  If the cells have larvae in them and they are being capped, check the shape of the capping for typical worker capping.

When I found those queen cells a month or so ago, they were on the very bottom of the hive. I couldn't find any other eggs or larvae anywhere in the hive and I looked at the very bottom up. That's why I was shocked to see anything when I did the last inspection. I still feed and yesterday, all the sugar water was gone whereas before 1/2 would still be there like the other hive. I'll do another inspection of the brood in ten days.
Thanks for the help!
Art
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Offline FlexMedia.tv

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2016, 05:53:17 am »
It's only after a hive is hopelesly queenless you'll see LW's, so as long as those q cells are viable the instinct is suppressed.

I know I'm supposed to know what LW's are but I don't! :-) but I think you are right about the mating flight if drones on the outside of the hive is any indication. I saw some yesterday at the entrance and I have never seen any outside the hive?
Thanks!
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2016, 12:16:39 pm »
"I know I'm supposed to know what LW's are but I don't! :-) "

LW's are Laying Workers.
Jim
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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2016, 12:38:48 am »
Makes sense now. *wink!*
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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2016, 11:52:04 am »
Let me ask ya this, knowing that I was waiting for queen cells to hatch and it been about a month, do you think she has been on a mating flight? This picture was when it was really hot but they don't usually clump like that. Normally they are just on the outside in one layer. Plus, I've never seen that many drones outside with those big ole eyeballs of theirs...





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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2016, 12:42:40 pm »
That looks like a bee ball. I would take my finger and try to push the bees out of the way. The last time I did this I found a new queen in the middle of it.
Jim
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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2016, 01:00:39 pm »
Bee ball? Something new absorbed again!
That picture was last week. Should I have captured her and placed her inside the old hive? I was just hoping she would just ease back inside.
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2016, 01:16:03 pm »
It depends on why she was on the ground. The one I found was beat up pretty bad and I put her back in the hive that I knew she came from but they would not accept her and they did not survive.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2016, 03:05:21 pm »
My hopes were she was one of the queen cells that hatched and she was returning from her mating flight on the way back to the hive. I would welcome that as a hobbyist. This learning curve is killing me!
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Offline rwlaw

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2016, 08:20:48 am »
If I was to hazard a guess, (and if your yellow jacket problems are as bad as mine) they'll balling one of em. Bees can't sting a hornet or wasp, so what they'll do is ball them and generate enough heat (or suffocate) to kill them.
Best advice for your queen? Relax, what will be, will be. If you have a failure you can always combine for the winter.
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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2016, 10:55:48 am »
Bees can't sting a hornet or wasp, so what they'll do is ball them and generate enough heat (or suffocate) to kill them.
Best advice for your queen? Relax, what will be, will be. If you have a failure you can always combine for the winter.

rwlaw,
Suffocating yellow jackets? Didn't know that either. Seems labor intensive! Yellow jackets are all over the place East of you for sure. There are holes dug up all over the place from the skunks where the yellow jackets used to be. As a hobbyist, I do need to be more patient. I only went in to this with the hopes I could help out the bee population. Anything else is a bonus but I do want them to survive. Do you think our Michigan weather will be rough on them this year? This sure is a relaxing hobby!  :smile:
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Offline PhilK

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2016, 07:36:53 pm »
If I was to hazard a guess, (and if your yellow jacket problems are as bad as mine) they'll balling one of em. Bees can't sting a hornet or wasp, so what they'll do is ball them and generate enough heat (or suffocate) to kill them.
Best advice for your queen? Relax, what will be, will be. If you have a failure you can always combine for the winter.
This isn't true, I don't think. As far as all the info I've read the only bees to develop the balling and overheating method of dealing with wasps are Japanese honeybees, and they use it against the Japanese hornet.

Offline rwlaw

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2016, 09:55:15 pm »
Flex media
It's like my mentor always said when I asked if it was going to be a mild winter or how many hives of his he thought were going to make it. His reply was " ask me in March". Feed em, get em up to weight, put some sugar on em and you've done your best.
Phil
My Michigan mutts must watch the discovery channel lol, they do a number on the yellow jackets and bumble and carpenter bees this time of the year. Find em laying dead in front of the hive quite frequently.
 I found a ball on the bottom board the other day and the gal that I'm mentoring wouldn't belive me when I told her what it was, so I busted the free for all up and at the bottom was a very dizzy yellow jacket that started staggering around, told em "good girls!"
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Offline PhilK

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2016, 10:20:11 pm »
Possibly they are just stinging them to kill them - that is well known. The actual 'balling and heating up' method has only been reported in Japan, so that would be incredible if you're witnessing a first! Get a video of it and send it to a university or something if you can!

Offline rwlaw

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2016, 11:05:17 pm »
Can't ever say that bk'n ain't a learning experience!

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2016, 10:12:06 am »
Well...take that!
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Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2016, 12:19:58 pm »
Nice video, thanks.
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Offline PhilK

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Re: Somebody is laying again but what?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2016, 08:41:30 pm »
Great video, but that does not appear to be the same behaviour! I would say they're just swamping the yellowjacket, grabbing and stinging. Compare it to a video of Japanese bees balling and heating a hornet on YouTube.. I suppose the only way to know for sure would be a thermo camera, but the cluster looks much too small and dispersed to be true heating. Bad-*ss bees all the same!