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Author Topic: Small cell question about weak hive??  (Read 2776 times)

Offline tillie

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Small cell question about weak hive??
« on: March 19, 2007, 09:38:06 pm »
My one hive that survived the winter is weak.  Currently the queen is laying well but she is only laying in three frames of a medium box.  There is an empty deep below the busy bees with no activity in it. 

1.  Should a weak hive be introduced to small cell at all until it builds up strength?
2.  Should I put frames with starter strips of small cell in the deep below?  Or should a weak hive be expected to draw comb?
3.  Should I remove the deep altogether and put another medium above the current one when the hive has used 8 of the current 10 frames and put frames in that medium with small cell?

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Offline Understudy

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2007, 09:45:18 pm »
My one hive that survived the winter is weak.  Currently the queen is laying well but she is only laying in three frames of a medium box.  There is an empty deep below the busy bees with no activity in it. 

1.  Should a weak hive be introduced to small cell at all until it builds up strength?
Adding frames natural or not isn't a good idea in my opinion. I would let them build up and do the 80% of the box before they get another one.

Quote
2.  Should I put frames with starter strips of small cell in the deep below?  Or should a weak hive be expected to draw comb?
Get rid of the deep. Put the starter strips in a medium.

Quote
3.  Should I remove the deep altogether and put another medium above the current one when the hive has used 8 of the current 10 frames and put frames in that medium with small cell?

Full of questions in Atlanta,

Linda T
Yes, remove the deep. Add the medium when it has reached 80%. You can use small cell then.


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Offline AndersMNelson

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2007, 10:07:28 pm »
The lower deep in my hive was empty while the top was filling up with eggs and brood.  Some others told me to just switch the bodies which is what I did.  Should I have removed it entirely?
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Offline mark

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2007, 10:46:57 pm »
   if the deep is drawn comb leave it right where it is.   they will use it as they need to and build up faster. if there are not enough bees to use the deep for brood they will use it for nectar and pollen storage. 

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 12:27:03 am »
If you've got bare foundation anywhere, you could replace that.  I would hesitate to deprive them of resources.  You may want to reduce the hive to minimum for the number of bees until they build back up.
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Offline Joseph Clemens

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 11:14:21 pm »
Since the deep is currently empty. I'd remove it, and replace it with a medium, once they are ready to begin occupying it. I'm one of those advocates for all mediums, I've been using all medium size supers for interchangeability for several decades. It really helps make beekeeping easier. I am also planning to try MB's suggestion and see how I like 8 frame medium size supers.

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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 11:18:10 pm »
Seeing is believing.  Medium 8 frames rock.  I can handle them from a wheelchair whereas the 10 frame mediums are just to bulky, that extra few inches in width can be a killer when it comes to handle-ability.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 07:32:32 am »
It's hard to get across how much those last two frames in a ten frame box weigh.  They are the furthest from your body and have a lot of leverage.  :)
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Offline tillie

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 10:26:43 am »
I can't tell if you all think I should use a medium because of all the reasons about ease of lifting, etc. or if I should put on a medium rather than the empty deep because it will be easier on these weak bees to work in a smaller box???

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Offline Cindi

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2007, 11:56:21 am »
Ressurecting a thought.  I recall quite some time ago about Jorn speaking about a Langstroth deep cut in half with a new wall constructed so you have two narrpw side by side deeps, making them easy to lift.  I am going to look into this deeper (get it, "deeper") uniformity is important to me.  Best of another fabulous day.  Cindi
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Offline Joseph Clemens

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2007, 12:16:08 pm »
My one hive that survived the winter is weak.  Currently the queen is laying well but she is only laying in three frames of a medium box.  There is an empty deep below the busy bees with no activity in it. 

1.  Should a weak hive be introduced to small cell at all until it builds up strength?
2.  Should I put frames with starter strips of small cell in the deep below?  Or should a weak hive be expected to draw comb?
3.  Should I remove the deep altogether and put another medium above the current one when the hive has used 8 of the current 10 frames and put frames in that medium with small cell?

Full of questions in Atlanta,

Linda T

1. Yes, I would introduce small cell to any bees, not yet using small cell.
2. You could put frames with starter strips of small cell in the deep below, but I personally use only medium depth boxes, for many reasons, and recommend it to everyone.
3. Yes, you should remove the deep altogether and put another medium above the current one, even now. In other words, remove the deep before the bees start to use it and replace it with another medium, or even an 8 frame medium.

I can hardly remember the last time I used deeps. I do remember the frustration of trying to move around a deep, I started keeping bees when I was 10 years old. I couldn't exchange frames between a deep and a medium, or vise versa, and as a pre-teen I couldn't lift a deep, with bees, if I wanted too. I even kept my bees on the roof at that time. Somehow I did manage to move 10 frame mediums, with lots of difficulty. I switched over to all mediums, and soon thereafter I was vindicated by an article in Gleanings in Bee Culture. Today, I am 50 years old, 5' 11" tall, 220 lbs, and in pretty good shape. But even medium's full of bees or honey seem to be a bit much. I am about to try some 8 frame medium supers, this has been recommended by several long-time beekeepers on this forum. I expect I will soon be spending some time and using my table saw to modify the remainder of my 10 frame supers, making them into 8 frame. My philosophy is that everything about beekeeping, which I love, should be as fun, easy, and free of "stress", as possible.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2007, 11:32:06 pm by Joseph Clemens »

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2007, 09:00:55 pm »
>I can't tell if you all think I should use a medium because of all the reasons about ease of lifting, etc. or if I should put on a medium rather than the empty deep because it will be easier on these weak bees to work in a smaller box???

If you were in mediums yes.  It would be a smaller box and that would be an improvement.  It would also be lighter and easier to handle.  But right now you just want to minimize the space while leaving them the resources they can handle (honey, pollen, brood etc.).

>My philosophy is that everything about beekeeping, which I love, should be as fun, easy, and free of "stress", as possible.

Exactly.   If it isn't fun and it's painful, then what's the point?
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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Small cell question about weak hive??
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2007, 08:55:02 pm »
For nursing weak hives into stronger units I decided to try placing a nuc box on top of the hive, effectively building the hive up in 1/2 units.  I nailed 2 strips of wood on the sides of a nuc box and then put boards across the ends.  The result is a nuc with a brim or what looks like a nuc box setting on a top.  It also works great for reducing the empty space when using bucket feeders (instead of using a super) and I plan to use the device for stress free installation of packages.  Both the open package and the feeder can be put in the remodeled nuc and the bees emerge from the package in their own time and get to work.
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