Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS => Topic started by: jwchitwood on December 24, 2009, 04:55:29 pm
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I went to my local wood working shop looking for a better box jig. They told me that I was using an eight pound sledge hammer to kill a fly. They were really big on using a pocket hole jig. They told me they made the same recommendation to other bee keepers. Has any one else made their hives using pocket hole screws? I'd like to know how it turned out for you and if there are any pitfalls.
Thanks,
Jon
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Can you provide a link to some pictures or info? I don't know what a "pocket hole" is.
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a pocket hole is nothing more than drilling a hole from the inside of the board. I was a cabinet builder/assembler for a time and that was one of the primary methods of assembling cabinet boxes with.
Wikipedia-pocket hole joinery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket-Hole_Joinery)
You can use either a drill/press and a jig to create a "pocket hole" or you can use a hand held drill and first bore perpendicular to the board, turning the bit to drill parallel once it's about halfway in.
If you want to use screw heads that have sloped heads, there is an adapter that can be installed on the drill bit to make the entrance to the hole fit the screw head perfectly.
The pocket hole is used primarily with butt joints. One thing it has going for it is that there is no externally exposed wood from drilling from the outside of the box. On the con side, it's another hiding place for shb unless you fill the hole over the screw head with a cap or wood putty of some kind.
Big Bear
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The box is held together by 5 screws and glue. I guess since I'm new I can't post photos. here is part of the link you can put into a browser.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3070/beeh.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3070/beeh.th.jpg)
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JWCHITWOOD,
If you wish to have a link posted to a thread,forward the link and the thread yiou wish to have it posted to to a moderator and they will post it until you have privileges to do so. thanks,Ken
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I like the Sledgehammer :evil:
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There is no advantage to just driving a screw straight into the butt joint other than with a pocket screw the thread will be biting through the side of the grain instead of into the end grain. Pocket screw aren't going to hold up long in an application like hive bodies where they are exposed to the weather. I have a pocket jig, and it's great - I use it all the time, but not for this.
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I've have the hive bodies out in the field for a season. The boxes are no worse for the way except one small problem. I can see staining from the pocket hole screws. The staining is obviously rust from the screws. The screw were manufactured by Kreg. Kreg is the maker of the pocket hole jig I used. It is only a mater of time at this point before the screws fail. :'(
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Kreg makes a great jig for pocket holes. I've used them all the time in cabinets/trim/etc. Works great. I'd use the stainless screws they have and with gluing the corners you'd be good.
Edward
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I second EDWARDW's statement. I have been using the KREG's jig for many years. even though they state that you don't need to use wood glue I always did. Pocket hole joints are strong. I do use stainless steel for some work BUT I have never used the jig for bee boxes. I guess I will try and see how they work out in the weather :-D
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I prefer a rabbet joint on the end (since a frame ledge has to be dadoed/routered anyway) and less tool switching. My brother-in-law swears by a glue he learned about in 8th grade - it's a powdered resin glue that dries waterproof and stronger than the wood. (I'm not remembering the name though :? )
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DAP Plastic Resin Glue is *amazing* stuff. Problem is you have to mix it and let it cure for quite a while, but basically cures to a phenolic type resin.
Edward
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I use plain old butt joints and good wood glue. I do drill pilot holes for the nails.
never had any problems. They last as long as the wood does. :)don2
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But if you use simple joinery, how are you going to justify more tools :lol:
For me, building hives was practice woodworking. The bees won't care if my craftsmanship isn't perfect. Heck, they probably won't even recognize the dove tail joints I made for them.
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DAP Plastic Resin Glue is *amazing* stuff. Problem is you have to mix it and let it cure for quite a while, but basically cures to a phenolic type resin.
Edward
I'm almost 100% sure that's the stuff.But if you use simple joinery, how are you going to justify more tools :lol:
For me, building hives was practice woodworking. The bees won't care if my craftsmanship isn't perfect. Heck, they probably won't even recognize the dove tail joints I made for them.
- My brother in law is the tool collector, so I don't get to do a lot of excuses to expand the woodshop (with him right up the road). I did get to sell my wife on an alaskan sawmill, so we can take our trees' rough lumber to my brother-in-law's to build furniture we can leave to our kids, and they to their kids... etc.
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I think I saw a hive in one of JP's videos that had pocket holes in it. They were drilled from the outside. (you could see the pocket from the outside of the hive). I've watched so many videos on here and youtube, it's hard telling where I did see it.
James
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I bumped this up because I was about to use a Kreg pocket hole to assemble everything. I even plan to use pocket holes to make Langstroth Frames, rather than the time consuming joinery.
I use my pocket hole set (as a hobby woodworker) just about every time I build something because it looks great, is incredibly strong and is easy to take apart if an error is made or a trial fitting goes bad. Most of what I make is one off.
The only problem that I can see is that if I use a lightweight wood the joints might be affected after exposure to the elements. This will mean using stronger wood.
For weather proofing I will probably use the green coloured epoxy coated screws which are countersunk but work as long as I don't get carried away putting them in to deep.
I plan to seal it with shellac afterwards.
However I am a new beekeeper so there are no doubt forces beyond my knowledge level, so I am open to suggestions.
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For the record, Kreg sells coated (waterproof) pocket hole screws. Found them at Home Hardware and reasonably priced.
I got the 1.25" ones.
SML-C125B
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Thanks for all the suggestions and things to watch out for.
I drilled mine on the inside of the box so there wouldn't be a place for water to collect. Doesn't look as nice as they look on the outside, but.... The boxes seem quite strong and assembly was fast. I put them on their side, standing up on my saw horse and used a pipe clamp to hold the pieces together so it would screw together perfectly. This allowed me to tap them into perfect position before tightening the clamp.
I also used the Kreg Pocket Hole Screws - course (for softwood) SML-C125B They are coloured blue. The guy at Home Depot pointed out that the Kreg screws are actually better than the cheaper ones because they have a small slit in them around the tip to help cut the hole to prevent splitting.
I started making the frames the regular way as per the Making Beehives for Dummies book and then decided to try the Pocket Hole way and I am very happy with their strength. Also happy not to have to mess with making the dados. (The top and bottom dados are different) I used to have a wobble dado years ago and it shook so badly that I never use it. It's almost scary and it can't be doing the bearings in the tablesaw any favours. Stacking dados looks expensive and a major job to set up.
I put the Pocket holes in the frames facing the exterior.
I put two screws in the top where the sides are wider and one screw in the bottom piece. After watching the excellent vids that the Admin made on making frames I think I'll make the bases split.
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I started making the frames the regular way as per the Making Beehives for Dummies book and then decided to try the Pocket Hole way and I am very happy with their strength.
How does that work? I thought frames are nailed (or stapled).
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https://www.google.ca/search?http://www.kregtool.com/Pocket-Hole-Jigs-Prodlist.html (https://www.google.ca/search?http://www.kregtool.com/Pocket-Hole-Jigs-Prodlist.html)
When I get a chance I will post a picture of one completed. I am experimenting and my workshop is unheated, so I only work when it is above 6 C.