Author Topic: Bees just love swarming (Read 6002 times)

Clegs · « **on:** July 02, 2007, 09:25:57 pm »

This is my first year having a hive. I put my bees in my hive and everything worked just right. They were even a head of schedule of where they were supposed to be from the books I've been reading. Until....

A few weeks ago my bees swarmed so I set about finding a way to merge the swarm with my existing hive (I only had one hive). So, by use of a queen excluder, made it so there was no queen in my hive, then I took all of the bees and put them in the lower super. I then put a few pieces of news paper with holes punched in them on top of the super and set the other super full of the swarm bees on top of the news paper. I also added a honey super, to give them more room.

To make a seemingly never ending story short, they didn't swarm for a whole week. That's right, the next Monday they all flew out and landed on our plumb tree. I was about to collect them when they all flew back into my hive. (I suppose that I should tell you that the method I used to make sure there were no queens in my hive meant that I put a queen excluder on the bottom so the queen couldn't fallow the swarm.)
I opened the hive and there were a few queen cells, so I killed them, and I rearranged a few of the frames to give them more room for brood.

The next day they swarmed again. Then I did a huge rearranging. I put the queen and all of the "emptier" frames into the bottom super and surrounded it with queen excluders. I then had to leave for a week. I told my neighbors to call my cell phone if the bees swarmed again. I did not get a call the entire time I was gone. But the day I came back, they swarmed again.

I opened the hive and there were around 4 queen cells, I removed them.

I can't figure out why they are swarming. They now have plenty of room in the hive, the upper super is packed full of honey, like every frame is 100% full, and there is plenty of room on the bottom where the queen is for brood.

I'm 16 years old and new to beekeeping, what should I do?

Kirk-o · « **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2007, 09:54:52 pm »

Hey Buddy
go to Michael Bush's web page and do some reading especially on unlimited brood nest you will be glad you did
kirk-0

newbee101 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2007, 09:55:02 pm »

1. Stop destroying swarm cells
2. Buy more equipment (new or used)
3. Place swarm in new box
4. Leave swarm cells for new queen to emerge
You should have more than 2 supers (deeps,mediums?)
I am running 3 deeps with 3 shallow supers to prevent swarming in the first place.
You have to be AHEAD of your bees.
Better to add additional boxes too soon, rather than too late.

Clegs · « **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2007, 10:06:24 pm »

I have two deep and one medium on my hive right now. My medium has been up for a few weeks and they haven't touched it yet.

I live in the city and don't know if I'm ready for two hives. I've been, for the most part, a head of my bees. When they swarmed the first time, there were more then 5 untouched frames. These aren't frames with hardly anything on it, these are frames waiting for them to start building the comb.

Hey, I read that article, and for a long time have had 2 deeps and 1 medium with only the excluder on the bottom so they don't swarm all around our neighborhood.

I would love to be able to keep everything in one hive. I'm not sure if I have the room yet to put another hive up.
If push comes to shove, would it work to kill my queen and order a new one? I'd hate to do that, is there any other way to do this?

doak · « **Reply #4 on:** July 02, 2007, 10:41:23 pm »

When you find out how to keep every thing in one hive, with what you're doing, please let me know.
doak

asprince · « **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2007, 10:49:45 pm »

Go here quickly.........study.......and learn.

http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

Clegs · « **Reply #6 on:** July 02, 2007, 10:57:01 pm »

I was just hit by an inspiration (yes that seems to happen to me :))

What if I took the queen, and a few frames of bees, put them in another super for a week or so, and reintroduced the queen back into the hive. Would that clear things up. If not, if I just removed the queen and ordered a new one, would that solve things?

Kathyp · « **Reply #7 on:** July 02, 2007, 11:12:34 pm »

do a split. it's easy (usually) and you'll have a second hive. if you have room to set up a box for a few days, you have room to set up a new hive. either that, or let them swarm and make a new queen. seems they want to do it. you won't be able to stop them unless you make them think they swarmed with a split.

Michael Bush · « **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2007, 11:23:31 pm »

>I can't figure out why they are swarming.

They swarm because that's how they reproduce. The superorganism (the colony) has to reproduce.

Your job is to fool them into thinking it's a bad plan.

Here's how that works:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm

Another thing you can do to help with swarming:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesulbn.htm

Another thing you can do is get rid of your excluder.

If they are intent on swarming (as indicated by queen cells) then you need to do a split. Otherwise they will swarm anyway. If you destroy queen cells they will swarm and likely end up queenless.

Clegs · « **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2007, 11:49:53 pm »

OK, so if I split them, then rejoin them in a week or so, will that work and ease their desire to swarm.
My excluder is on the bottom of the hive, since I don't want any angry neighbors calling saying they have a cloud of bees in their back yard.

Thanks Bush, your articles are great! I've tried those and they're still swarming.

So you guys are saying I should split the hive. Would it work if I took the queen out of the hive with some frames of bees, waited a few days, then put the queen in her little box with a marshmallow and put her back into the hive the same way I did when I got her?

Michael Bush · « **Reply #10 on:** July 03, 2007, 08:05:07 am »

>OK, so if I split them, then rejoin them in a week or so, will that work and ease their desire to swarm.

I wouldn't worry about rejoining them until you get them to settle down. I'd split ruthlessly at this point. Make a bunch of hives with three frames of brood (with a queen cell at least of course) and two frames of honey in each.

>My excluder is on the bottom of the hive, since I don't want any angry neighbors calling saying they have a cloud of bees in their back yard.

And you think that will stop them? You now have dead drones all over the excluder.

Nothing will stop them from swarming that I've seen, once they are making queen cells, short of ruthless splitting.

The time to head off swarming was back in April and May.

After a month, you might see if you want to recombine.

asprince · « **Reply #11 on:** July 03, 2007, 08:32:42 am »

If your concern is having too many hives after the splits, sell or give away the nuc's. You could also relocate them to another area. People are always offering to let me place a hive or two on their property.

Sean Kelly · « **Reply #12 on:** July 03, 2007, 11:48:42 am »

Where at in Washington are you? I live in Buckley, just east of Puyallup. If you split your hive and want to sell it, I'd be interested in buying it from you.

If you split your hive, they'll think they swarmed and everything will go back to normal. Keep the queen cells and let them make a new queen. It sounds like these girls have their heart set on swarming, so it's a lost cause trying to put them all back in. Do a split, sell it to me or keep it for yourself. Or check with a local farmer near you and ask if you could put the hive there. Usually they're more than happy to do so.

Sean Kelly

Clegs · « **Reply #13 on:** July 03, 2007, 02:00:26 pm »

I live in Kent, around 30min north of Puyallup.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. It looks like splitting them is the best thing for me to do to keep my sanity!

The reason I have the excluder on the bottom is so that when they swarm they'll all go back too the hive. I don't like using the excluder down there also but, since the 4th is coming up, I won't be home much for when they swarm. I'd rather they swarm to my neighbors property and come back before they call the police, then have them stay there for a long time.

Does it really take that long for them to settle down? Living in the city, I have a limit on how many hives I can have.

Sean Kelly · « **Reply #14 on:** July 03, 2007, 03:52:48 pm »

You're not to far from me. Yeah, like everyone else said, split the hive. It makes them think they swarmed and it'll solve the problem until next year. I think if you're right in town in Kent you can only have a couple hives. But if you live on the outskirts like in Covington you can have as many as you'd like. Either way, if you don't want a second hive, you could sell it and make some extra cash. Check with the Pierce County Beekeepers Assin. or the Washington State Beekeepers Assin. and I'm sure you'll find someone who could take the extra bees off of ya.

Something else you could try is a Slatted Rack. Betterbee has a good one that runs the same direction as your frames which help with varrora control when used with a screened bottom board (i prefer the one from Brushy Mountain). Plus it gives them a little buffer space that supposedly helps with swarm control.

Do your neighbors know you have bees? Are you registered with the Washington State Dept. of Agriculture (it's only $5)? I'm not sure if your city requires you to register or not, but if they do then do it soon. Register with the state too and then tell all your neighbors door to door that you're a beekeeper and give them your phone number. That way when they swarm they'll call you instead of the cops. And when you harvest your honey, make a few extra jars for your neighbors and they'll be happier than a clam.

I know in Des Moines you're required to post at least 2 signs per apiary. Not sure if you have to in Kent, but it's a good idea anyway.

Good luck and keep us informed!

Sean Kelly

Clegs · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2007, 04:16:16 pm »

Yes I've told my neighbors :)
Some of them have even come over and opened my hive with me.

It's just that they freak out when there's a cloud of bees in their backyard. They have my cell and I've told them to call me if anything happens.

I'm in town in Kent. What do you mean by posting signs? Do I need to have signs outside my house?
Anyway, thanks for the help :-D

Brian D. Bray · « **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2007, 11:50:00 pm »

Your bees are bound and determined to swarm. Until they are successful they will continue that behavior. Split the hive. That will satisfy the swarm (reproduction) instinct and allow the bees to get back to normal. As it stands now, all energies of the hive are focused on producing a succesful swarm. In order to reorientate the bees you need to split them. Their behavior will then return to the normal gather/storage mode for both hives.

If you continue to the pattern you've discribed above every thing will be fruitless. You are lucky you still have a queen. You run the risk of losing the hive. With a split you have 2. 2 hives gives you resources if something goes wrong with 1 of them.

Sean Kelly · « **Reply #17 on:** July 04, 2007, 06:02:54 am »

Here's the sign in front of my apiary:

By w7spk at 2007-04-21

It's a good idea to have one incase some kid gets into your hives and gets stung and they try to sue you. That way they cant say they didnt have any warning. Some urban areas require it. I know Des Moines requires you have at least 2 posted on your property. In Buckley we're not required since we are rural enough and out in the agriculture area.

Have you registered with the Washington State Department of Agriculture yet? It's a good idea to.

Brian is very right, do a split. You can even make a nuc or two and sell those. It's cheaper than buying a whole new hive. I think Trees n' Bees in Auburn has all the equipment on hand, though they are a little pricy. It's nice to have a store near by where I can buy stuff at the last minute, but if you have the time you'll save a lot by mail order.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

Sean Kelly

Clegs · « **Reply #18 on:** July 04, 2007, 12:47:31 pm »

OK, I'm going to be leaving for the forth, but when I get back I'll probably split them. I've been to trees 'n bees before, it looks like a nice place.

My grandparents just said that I could put a hive on their lake property, this might be the time. I didn't know that beekeeping is such a controversial hobby :) Every site gives you different advice.... but that's ok, when that doesn't work I'll try the next :)

What do you mean by I'm lucky I still have the queen? I have it rigged so that the queen cannot leave the hive. Will the other bees kill her?

I don't think we need to have a sign, nor do I think I need to register. We can have a hive if we live on more then 5,000 sq feet and another one for every 1,000 more. We have our property almost maxed out with chickens, a rabbit, and now bees! The ordinance says nothing about registering them, just the limit which we can have and that it needs to be at least 10 feet from the property line. Also, if some random guy got near my hives he'd be trespassing and so he'd deserve to be stung. And trespassing is a slightly greater offense then being stung while trespassing.

I don't think I'm in any legal problems with my bees flying over to my neighbors and stinging them (though I don't think this has happened).

Cindi · « **Reply #19 on:** July 04, 2007, 06:26:55 pm »

Sean Kelly, holy crow and rock and roll. What a sign!!!! What did they soak you for making that?

I don't think that we have to make any postings about bees around our territory. But then, I could be wrong. Have a wonderful and great life. Cindi