Author Topic: Advice for starting 2 new hives, 1st year beek (Read 5585 times)

dean0 · « **on:** February 09, 2011, 02:12:45 pm »

Hi, I am planning to start my first 2 new hives this spring in Central Florida. I have purchased, assembled and painted my hives which will consist of 1-10 frame deep and 1-10 frame medium, 1 screen bottom board and 1 migratory cover each. My hives are assembled and have been sitting in the yard for a week to allow any fumes from the paint to dissipate by the time I acquire the bees. I am getting my bees from a local beek and member of this forum, Hardwood, some time in March (hopefully earlier :)). I am planning to purchase, assemble and paint 6 medium 9 frame supers and 54 medium frames this weekend just to have on hand should the bees like their new home and new more room for expansion. Since this is my first year working with bees, does it sound like I am on the right track or is there something else I should be doing?

Question about the migratory cover. Since it has a top and a bottom, a 3/8" side and 5/8" side, which side goes on the bottom. I am assuming that since the entrance is 3/8", that I should put the 3/8" side of the migratory cover down to create a 3/8" bee space rather than a 5/8" bee space. Any ideas?

It has been years since I have been stung by a bee so I hope I don't find out that I am allergic to them.

Hardwood, If there is a day on the weekend, prior to me receiving my own bees, that you are working your hives or collecting a swarm, I would like to volunteer my time to help you any way I can gather as much hands on experience as I can before I am on my own. Also let me know what I can expect when I receive my bees. Thanks.

Dean

Yuleluder · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2011, 03:38:59 pm »

Sounds like you are getting everything ready.

Are you sure you aren't talking about the inner cover and not the migratory cover?

D Coates · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2011, 03:42:24 pm »

First of all welcome to the forum. As for equipment, how did you get 9 frame supers? If it's a 10 frame super on undrawn foundation, I run 10 frames until they are drawn out. I've found they'll screw them up if you give them too much space. Once drawn I run 9 frames and things go fine. Otherwise, it looks like you're well prepaired for your new addiction, hobbie, (whatever) ;).

I don't have any experience on migratory tops so I can't help you there.

As for stings, they may scare you at first. After a couple of years they won't. I now forget to even remove the stinger on occasion if I'm busy. I will say they hurt as much now as they did then and removing the stinger doesn't have any impact on the amount of pain for me. I don't swell up either way unless it's in the face.

dean0 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:05:45 pm »

"Are you sure you aren't talking about the inner cover and not the migratory cover?"
It is an UNTREATED 10 FRAME MIGRATORY TOP COVER that I got from MannLake SKU: WW-365

"As for equipment, how did you get 9 frame supers?"
Actually they are 10 frame supers but I was plan on putting in only 9 evenly spaced frames so the comb is thicker and therefore can hold more honey...or at least that is what I have been told. Since me and the bees will be starting from scratch this year, I was planning to use all 10 frames the 1st year to buildup up the hive and let them keep all their honey this year. Next year I was planning on using just 9 frames and I hope to be able to harvest some honey.

T Beek · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:11:08 pm »

Welcome to this forum, I'll let others more aquainted with your climate chime in on your questions, but be aware newbeek deanO; there's no dumb questions (but you may very well get some dumb answers :-D from time to time), be prepared sometimes for LOTS of advise, sometimes confusing and conflicting advise and sometimes little advise at all.

My own advise includes going back to the very beginnings of this forum and read some of the topics your already interested in and then keep reading, there are priceless gems hidden among those archives. The rest as they say, will ultimately be up to you. Have fun with your bees.

thomas

Yuleluder · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:53:32 pm »

Quote from: dean0 on February 09, 2011, 04:05:45 pm

It is an UNTREATED 10 FRAME MIGRATORY TOP COVER that I got from MannLake SKU: WW-365

If this is the cover you are referring to http://www.mannlakeltd.com/ProductDetail.asp?idproduct=1585&idCategory=
then the bottom is facing down in the picture. Hope this helps.

FRAMEshift · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2011, 05:01:31 pm »

dean0, I prefer standardizing on just one frame size. You could use all deeps or all mediums but mixing them is really a pain. I use all deep frames in long hives, but if I were going to run Langs, I would take a look at Michael Bush's 8 frame medium system. Basically, he sorts boxes instead of frames and that is a very cool innovation.

When we started out, we also used several frame sizes but it didn't take long to figure out that standardizing is your friend.

Jim134 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2011, 05:53:14 pm »

Quote from: D Coates on February 09, 2011, 03:42:24 pm

I run 10 frames until they are drawn out. I've found they'll screw them up if you give them too much space. Once drawn I run 9 frames and things go fine.

Dittto

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

T Beek · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2011, 06:05:07 pm »

Double that ditto ;)

thomas

Acebird · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2011, 07:35:15 pm »

Quote

I was planning to use all 10 frames the 1st year to buildup up the hive and let them keep all their honey this year.

I don't know how it works in FL but I would think you should be able to get some honey the first year.

hardwood · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2011, 07:52:52 pm »

Hi Dean! It's unfortunate that I'm just seeing your post. If I'd have known you wanted to play with some bees you could have come along to a bee tree removal we did today.

I'll be grafting queens over the next few weeks to make up all the nucs for everyone (including yours). Give me a call sometime and I'll be happy to show you how it's done (or at least how I do it :-D)

Scott

VolunteerK9 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2011, 02:06:12 pm »

Quote from: T Beek on February 09, 2011, 04:11:08 pm

Welcome to this forum, I'll let others more aquainted with your climate chime in on your questions, but be aware newbeek deanO; there's no dumb questions (but you may very well get some dumb answers :-D from time to time), be prepared sometimes for LOTS of advise, sometimes confusing and conflicting advise and sometimes little advise at all.

My own advise includes going back to the very beginnings of this forum and read some of the topics your already interested in and then keep reading, there are priceless gems hidden among those archives. The rest as they say, will ultimately be up to you. Have fun with your bees.

thomas

I couldn't agree more. I've dug around on here for hours at a time with one question turning into 5 more. There's a wealth of knowledge to be gained here from a lot of experienced beeks (I'm not one of them :-D) Hardwood won't lead you wrong. He might make you trip into the neighbor's satellite dish, but he won't lead you wrong :-D

ronwhite3030 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2011, 03:24:09 pm »

Welcome Dean. Sorry to steal tour post with a question.

I have a question since we are on the subject again about using all mediums, does anyone here use all mediums that do pollination contracts or does using all mediums not work because I have never seen all mediums used when people are commercial beeks and since I since I am in california I want to do pollination contracts, to me it would be easier to have control over 8 frames of bees in a deep rather then a medium, I mean you could doube it for pollination and make sure 16 frames of mediums have bees on them, but as far as old time farmers and what not I would rather them know what they are getting. I am not doing pollination yet but I dont want to kick myself in the but later if I try to do standardization, I hope Redbee chimes in on this.

dean0 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2011, 03:35:37 pm »

Quote from: hardwood on February 09, 2011, 07:52:52 pm

If I'd have known you wanted to play with some bees you could have come along to a bee tree removal we did today.

My paying job keeps me busy Monday through Friday so I am glad I didn't know about the bee tree removal until it was too late to join you. I would have wanted to call in sick.

Quote from: hardwood on February 09, 2011, 07:52:52 pm

I'll be grafting queens over the next few weeks to make up all the nucs for everyone (including yours).

Do you think you will be doing anything with the bees this weekend? I know it isn't going to warm up much this weekend but the following weekend looks like it may be a bit warmer, but I am still available both weekends. I would like to learn more about grafting queens and anything else that you can teach me. I would like to learn what has worked and what has not worked. It is like I tell my kids, learn from my mistakes because you can't live long enough to make them all yourself.

Dean0

Acebird · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2011, 04:02:54 pm »

Quote

I have a question since we are on the subject again about using all mediums, does anyone here use all mediums that do pollination contracts or does using all mediums not work because I have never seen all mediums used when people are commercial beeks

I don't know the answer but I have a feeling that commercial beeks have equipment so lifting mediums vs deeps is not an issue. You could standardize on all deeps I would assume.

rdy-b · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2011, 04:56:31 pm »

Quote from: ronwhite3030 on February 10, 2011, 03:24:09 pm

Welcome Dean. Sorry to steal tour post with a question.

I have a question since we are on the subject again about using all mediums, does anyone here use all mediums that do pollination contracts or does using all mediums not work because I have never seen all mediums used when people are commercial beeks and since I since I am in california I want to do pollination contracts, to me it would be easier to have control over 8 frames of bees in a deep rather then a medium, I mean you could doube it for pollination and make sure 16 frames of mediums have bees on them, but as far as old time farmers and what not I would rather them know what they are getting. I am not doing pollination yet but I dont want to kick myself in the but later if I try to do standardization, I hope Redbee chimes in on this.

we do it all the time --3mediums = 2 Deeps-and stack the same hight on a pallet there is no diferance-RDY-B

Keith13 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2011, 05:06:45 pm »

Quote from: ronwhite3030 on February 10, 2011, 03:24:09 pm

Welcome Dean. Sorry to steal tour post with a question.

I have a question since we are on the subject again about using all mediums, does anyone here use all mediums that do pollination contracts or does using all mediums not work because I have never seen all mediums used when people are commercial beeks and since I since I am in california I want to do pollination contracts, to me it would be easier to have control over 8 frames of bees in a deep rather then a medium, I mean you could doube it for pollination and make sure 16 frames of mediums have bees on them, but as far as old time farmers and what not I would rather them know what they are getting. I am not doing pollination yet but I dont want to kick myself in the but later if I try to do standardization, I hope Redbee chimes in on this.

Not 100% sure but I believe it cost something like 20% more in start up cost on hardware to have all mediums vs deeps so maybe with the size of a commercial operation to have all mediums adds considerable overhead cost.

Keith

jdnewberry · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2011, 05:12:49 pm »

I agree with Keith. 3 mediums = 2 deeps.

There is no real difference in the two other than cost and ease in lifting. If you have the machinery that does all of your lifting for you, use deeps. If weight is more important than price, use mediums. In my opinion, this is why you see mostly deeps in the largest commercial operations.

T Beek · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2011, 06:33:03 pm »

Since I use Langs and one Long Hive (building more now) having interchangable frames is a luxury, I use all mediums because they're lighter than deeps. Wish I'd known about 8 frames before, but have been working out a method to reduce 10s down to 8s w/out cutting them apart that should work out fine and provide more winter insulation as well.

If you watch for sales you can get supers and frames at very reasonable prices (now isnt exactly the best time to buy equipment, sorry retailers. From August on deals are plentiful). Bought just a package of five unassembled medium supers last year for $25.00/free shipping. All I had to do was put the frames in, which I got for .65 each and also free shipping. I don't think that's so bad, really, just have to keep an eye out (I did have to build my own SBB and inner and top covers and sand a couple of those mediums down in order for them to fit right though, but I don't mind).

thomas

Brian D. Bray · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:05:12 pm »

Quote from: jdnewberry on February 10, 2011, 05:12:49 pm

I agree with Keith. 3 mediums = 2 deeps.

There is no real difference in the two other than cost and ease in lifting. If you have the machinery that does all of your lifting for you, use deeps. If weight is more important than price, use mediums. In my opinion, this is why you see mostly deeps in the largest commercial operations.

Unless you make your own equipment, like I do, I just by foundation once in a while, but go foundationless most of the time, buying 8 frame equipment is slightly more expensive than buying 10 frames because 1 deep box is going to cost X number of dollars whether it is an 8 frame or a 10 frame.
But given that the less stress of handling and manipulation 8 frame equipment verses 10 frame equipment exceeds the difference in medical bills.

Like MB I use 8 frame mediums for everything. I find the bee fit an 8 frame hive better than a 10 frame hive. Fit having to do with bees ability to use the cubic space within the hive to maximum efficiency.

Acebird · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:17:22 pm »

Quote

I find the bee fit an 8 frame hive better than a 10 frame hive.

That implies a higher yield. So if you are running a balance sheet you should come out further ahead with 8 frame equipment.

T Beek · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:57:21 pm »

I think he's talking about the honeybees preferred hive cubic area as opposed to honey yields.

When taking into account potentail medical bills, medium 8 frames just make more sense and will result in less injury for many beeks.

thomas

Acebird · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2011, 09:31:21 am »

Quote

I think he's talking about the honeybees preferred hive cubic area

Well explain to me what that means. If they prefer it then the density of bees per cu in will be greater in the 8 frame than the 10 frame. If that is the case then you should get more honey per frame (the frames are the same size right?) with 8 frame hives.

If this is not the case then how would you conclude that the bees prefer an 8 frame hive?

T Beek · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:03:43 pm »

I guess its better said that "some" beeks prefer medium 8 frame supers, but I believe some evidence exists showing honeybee preference for the cubic area of a 8 frame as opposed to ten frame cubic area. Someone will hopefully post a link describing it better than I can. Honey yields have never been that important to me anyway.

Have you been to Michael Bush's site, I think he explains it all quite well. (that would require some reading though :-D)

thomas

Acebird · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2011, 02:14:57 pm »

Quote

Have you been to Michael Bush's site

Sure have, great site.

Brian D. Bray · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2011, 03:48:30 pm »

Quote from: Acebird on February 10, 2011, 07:17:22 pm

Quote
I find the bee fit an 8 frame hive better than a 10 frame hive.

That implies a higher yield. So if you are running a balance sheet you should come out further ahead with 8 frame equipment.

Check out this post: http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,31480.0.html