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Author Topic: Question About Winter Inspection  (Read 4428 times)

Offline PhilK

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Question About Winter Inspection
« on: June 13, 2016, 09:17:40 pm »
G'day,

Two hives in my backyard. One is a brood box and two supers, the other is a broodbox and one super. All are 10 frame deeps. The bigger hive is always super busy - bees pouring in and out all day, but I have noticed the smaller hive is a lot quieter.

I did an inspection to see what was going on, and in the brood box I noticed out of 10 frames only about 4 had brood, and these were in relatively small patches. The outside 3 frames were more or less all honey and some pollen. No fully capped frames of honey in the super but some are about half done while others are mostly empty frames.

Should I be worried about this? Is this 'backfilling' of the brood nest, or has this queen slowed down for the winter? Just concerned as the other hive is doing so much better. I put some empty frames from the super into the brood box and moved the honeybound frames from the brood box up into the super. Did I do the right thing?

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2016, 09:43:22 pm »
Not sure how cold it gets in Brisbane but during winter even here in N FL where it stays fairly warm, the queen pretty much shuts down egg laying production. It takes a lot of pollen and honey to raise brood. If the bees do not shut down brood production early enough, they may not have enough food to make it through the winter.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline Honeycomb king

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2016, 10:21:55 pm »
I would have left the honey in the brood box, but you've done it now so see what happens. What's the weather like there, what's your min/max etc? At what time of day is it reaching the top temperature and how many hours is it at that temp?
These are the shortest days of the year so yes the queen has slowed down for winter. The days actually start to lengthen  in the 2nd week of July, as the days start to get longer the queen should start up again. Leave them alone until then. Time to observe the hive without disturbing it. Watch the bees coming and going. Are they bring pollen home? How many types of pollen?  Do you know it's source? What's the protein content? Are they getting nectar?
What were you hoping would be the outcome of putting empty frames in the brood box?

Offline PhilK

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2016, 11:12:26 pm »
Thanks Jim!

What's the weather like there, what's your min/max etc? At what time of day is it reaching the top temperature and how many hours is it at that temp?
Last few days has been rainy and cold around 10-18C, today is a max of 22C around 2:30 and the rain is slowing down. Before the last few days it has been beautiful and sunny, around 12-15C at night and 20-25C during the day.

Quote
Watch the bees coming and going. Are they bring pollen home? How many types of pollen?  Do you know it's source? What's the protein content? Are they getting nectar?
Busy hive is coming going like crazy, bringing pollen in. Quiet hive very few bees coming and going, occasional one has pollen. Seem to be one or two colours of pollen, not sure on type and extra not sure on protein content. No idea how to tell if they're getting nectar by observing outside the hive

Quote
What were you hoping would be the outcome of putting empty frames in the brood box?
Everywhere I have read or seen has said if there is lots of honey frames in the brood box they should be moved to the honey super to give them more space in the brood box, so I just did that. My thinking was that if the frames are full of honey she can't lay in them.
Should I go back in and replace them?

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2016, 11:40:07 pm »
Phil,
I would quickly remove it out of the brood area if it is 65 or warmer. That empty space could cause the cluster to be fractured. Not a problem in warm areas but a serious problem where it is real cold.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline PhilK

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2016, 11:59:32 pm »
Phil,
I would quickly remove it out of the brood area if it is 65 or warmer. That empty space could cause the cluster to be fractured. Not a problem in warm areas but a serious problem where it is real cold.
Jim
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Remove what out of the brood area?

Frames 8, 9, and 10 were honey frames. I moved frame 8 to the 10 spot and put the other two frames in the super. I gave them two empty drawn comb frames at 8 and 9. The majority of bees seemed to be around frames 2-7

Offline Wombat2

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2016, 03:25:45 am »
Do you have a winter mat on the brood box? - bit late now if you don't but something to think about 1st April through to 1st September each year. Keeps the heat in and the queen laying so numbers are up at the start of spring flow. Once the mat is on I keep out of the brood box until the weather is consistently warmer (night temperatures over 18C) During the winter keep a frame of honey and or pollen on the outsides against the sides for warmth but remove when the mats come out.

Does the strong hive get more sun? is the weaker hive more shaded?
David L

Offline PhilK

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2016, 05:28:30 am »
Do you have a winter mat on the brood box? - bit late now if you don't but something to think about 1st April through to 1st September each year. Keeps the heat in and the queen laying so numbers are up at the start of spring flow. Once the mat is on I keep out of the brood box until the weather is consistently warmer (night temperatures over 18C) During the winter keep a frame of honey and or pollen on the outsides against the sides for warmth but remove when the mats come out.

Does the strong hive get more sun? is the weaker hive more shaded?
What sort of mat? Haven't heard of that before.

No they are side by side

Offline Wombat2

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2016, 08:02:04 am »
I use vinyl flooring off cuts from a Floor Coverings Shop - cut them so the width finishes on the top of the second frame in on each side and about the same distance in from each end. They go in under the queen excluder around 1st April or when night temps are below 18*c. They keep the warmth in the brood box and the queen keeps laying and numbers stay high. Make sure there are at least 9 full frames of honey above for food. Come spring hive numbers will be at full strength and don't have to wait for 2 weeks while numbers build. You will pull honey off a month earlier than you would without the mat.
David L

Offline Honeycomb king

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2016, 08:04:39 am »
Sorry I posted a reply earlier that seems to have gone a miss. But I'm sure the info that wombat2 gives you will be better than that from a southerner or a yank as wombat2 is local to your area.
Yes what you read is correct it's just your timing that is wrong.give them some brood space in 4 to 6 weeks once the days are getting longer. But perhaps you could chat with wombat or some other locals for a better insight.

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2016, 05:50:48 pm »
Phil,
I would quickly remove it out of the brood area if it is 65 or warmer. That empty space could cause the cluster to be fractured. Not a problem in warm areas but a serious problem where it is real cold.
Jim
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Remove what out of the brood area?

Frames 8, 9, and 10 were honey frames. I moved frame 8 to the 10 spot and put the other two frames in the super. I gave them two empty drawn comb frames at 8 and 9. The majority of bees seemed to be around frames 2-7
I was under the impression that you placed empty frames in the middle of your brood with winter coming on. I was just saying to reverse what you did.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline PhilK

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2016, 07:33:56 pm »
Thanks for the replies everyone. Wombat, would it be worth doing the mats now, or just leave them be for 4-6 weeks?

Offline Wombat2

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2016, 07:53:04 pm »
Thanks for the replies everyone. Wombat, would it be worth doing the mats now, or just leave them be for 4-6 weeks?

No leave it for this year - I went a couple of years without but when I started using them they made a big difference
David L

Offline Honeycomb king

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2016, 04:56:38 pm »
Hey Phil, just to let you know our weather down here isn't going above 10?c this week at home, and won't see above 15 until they get to almonds. Even hives in warmer places haven't been above 16 for a month. Would like a few days of your weather.

Offline PhilK

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2016, 07:12:54 pm »
Hey HCK,

I must have jinxed myself cause the weather has turned pretty bad the last couple of weeks now! Definitely still warmer than 10C but raining for ages so pretty miserable

Offline Culley

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2016, 08:44:50 am »
The Northern Rivers is seeing a bit of a cold snap at the moment and it's been fairly windy.

Offline SlickMick

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Re: Question About Winter Inspection
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2016, 08:55:09 am »
5C at Carindale in the morning. The native bees probably won't fly but I expect the big girls will be venturing out.. Top of 19C

Mick

 

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