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Author Topic: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs  (Read 2744 times)

Offline specialkayme

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Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« on: April 13, 2012, 11:49:07 pm »
An article in the most recent edition of Bee Culture discusses how an Association was having heavy losses. After trying several things, and being unable to determine the cause of their loss, they sent comb to get tested. The test results ended up showing several residues from miticides they used (go figure). The shocking part was there were a number of chemical residues from other pesticides that were not directly applied (by the beekeeper) to the hive. Most likely the bees picked up these fungicides, herbicides, and pesticides from neighbors who used the items on their laws, flowers, ect. The resulting combination ended up creating a chemical concoction, that likely ended up in the eventual decline of their colonies, or so it was expected.

The article concluded by stating that they were unaware of how to prevent it moving forward, and just decided to move the hives to a different location. But what about the backyard beekeeper, who isn't able to move it at all? How do they avoid contamination from pesticides, fungicides, and other chemicals? Obviously using miticides that leave no residue in the comb is a start (which, by the way, does anyone have a list?), but how do you prevent the foraging bees from collecting those potentially harmful products? Or don't you?

The only solution I see, for the fixed location beekeeper, would be to chuck the comb every couple years. Any other thoughts?

On a side note, how do the chemicals interact with plastic foundations? If I ripped out the wax and put in fresh wax foundation, I would be removing the chemicals. But can I just melt the wax off the plastic foundations? Are the chemicals able to penetrate into the plastic?

Offline buzzbee

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 08:08:46 am »
This is not new.
The wax is like a sponge. It is recommended to cycle out  old combs every few years. Contrary to what you are thinking,it may be best to pressure wash the wax off the plastic combs once in a while.
Chemicals show up in new foundation as well. Why? Because they are rendering it from old combs and cappings.And guess what is in the old combs? Those chemicals that were in someones hive and wax. However the foundation is only a thin part of the comb,but is is uncontrollable for the buyer to know whats in it.
 Remember it's not just your neighbors chemicals,but anything within a couple mile radius that the bees happen to visit.
Be concerned?,yes. Can you eliminate it completely?,no.

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2012, 08:28:05 am »
You may find the following page interesting as it is focused on this situation. Read the first part about testing collected pollen.
http://www.bjornapiaries.com/researchatbjorns.html

This testing was done in 2008.

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Offline specialkayme

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 11:32:55 am »
I'm not saying it's a new concept. I've been rotating combs in and out for years for that reason.

In the article and Bjorn's research, both have shown some very harmful chemicals that are in the hives, harvested from neighboring farms, yards, and areas. Some of those chemicals it would take several years (20 maybe) for it to build up to a harmful level. Others it might take two or three years. Who knows. Without knowing what chemicals are being introduced into your hive, what are you supposed to do, blindly think every "X" years you should change the comb?

As stated, I've changed combs every 5 years (two frames of a ten frame box per year). I fear that might not be enough, as I've noticed some of my three and four year old brood combs are not being attacked by wax moths. That leads me to believe there are plenty of pesticides and chemicals in the wax, that I have not introduced. So should I be looking to change them out sooner than every five years?

Eventually, it comes down to having to replace the combs more often than is actually feasible, cutting into honey yields. If that's the case, the extreme would be to just shake all the bees onto new foundation every year . . .

I am also aware that the foundation isn't pure either. However, Dee Lusby and FatBeeMan (whether you chose to listen to them or not) highly suggest making your own foundations from wax you have harvested from your yards, because you know what's in it. Based on that logic, you don't. Re-using the comb would just make things worse . . .

As stated, the article put the solution as just moving the yard to a new location, one suspected to not have as high chemical exposure. Obviously not a solution for everyone.

Offline Jim134

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2012, 11:47:18 am »
I'm not saying it's a new concept. I've been rotating combs in and out for years for that reason.

In the article and Bjorn's research, both have shown some very harmful chemicals that are in the hives, harvested from neighboring farms, yards, and areas. Some of those chemicals it would take several years (20 maybe) for it to build up to a harmful level. Others it might take two or three years. Who knows. Without knowing what chemicals are being introduced into your hive, what are you supposed to do, blindly think every "X" years you should change the comb?

As stated, I've changed combs every 5 years (two frames of a ten frame box per year). I fear that might not be enough, as I've noticed some of my three and four year old brood combs are not being attacked by wax moths. That leads me to believe there are plenty of pesticides and chemicals in the wax, that I have not introduced. So should I be looking to change them out sooner than every five years?

Eventually, it comes down to having to replace the combs more often than is actually feasible, cutting into honey yields. If that's the case, the extreme would be to just shake all the bees onto new foundation every year . . .

I am also aware that the foundation isn't pure either. However, Dee Lusby and FatBeeMan (whether you chose to listen to them or not) highly suggest making your own foundations from wax you have harvested from your yards, because you know what's in it. Based on that logic, you don't. Re-using the comb would just make things worse . . .
As stated, the article put the solution as just moving the yard to a new location, one suspected to not have as high chemical exposure. Obviously not a solution for everyone.

Remember it's not just your neighbors chemicals,but anything within a couple mile radius that the bees happen to visit.
Be concerned?,yes. Can you eliminate it completely?,no.

specialkayme........
 

Did read this   :roll:


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Offline buzzbee

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2012, 01:56:25 pm »
The best thing you could do is get as far away from Agriculture and industrial areas as you can get. I wonder if forested areas are any better?



Offline specialkayme

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2012, 02:49:21 pm »
True, but what if you are a backyard beekeeper, with hives at your house? Moving, or selecting yards based on location to agriculture/industrial areas, isn't really an option.

Or is it really just one of those "Oh well, hope for the best" or "manage as you can" deals.

Offline Jim134

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2012, 03:12:46 pm »
True, but what if you are a backyard beekeeper, with hives at your house? Moving, or selecting yards based on location to agriculture/industrial areas, isn't really an option.

Or is it really just one of those "Oh well, hope for the best" or "manage as you can" deals.



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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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Offline buzzbee

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 03:28:20 pm »
That often is the case with bees in the backyard. My bees are in my backyard.But one advantage of having bees in the backyard is being able to give them more attention and see problems before they get out of hand.Which may more than offset any harm coming from the chemical buildup.
If you don't dump non essential treatments in (treating for the sake of treating) you will most likely have worse problems dealing with mites and small hive beetle.
Wax moths not attacking the wax is really not an indication of contaminants. My have sat empty through one autumn with no attraction to the moths,but autumn two,they wiped it out.. I'll close the tube up from now on when it's not occupied.However,it was interesting to see how quick the larvae consumed the wax.

Offline Finski

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2012, 03:49:16 pm »
I wonder if forested areas are any better?




Who would spread expencive chemicals there?

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Offline BjornBee

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2012, 04:22:25 pm »
Depends what you want from your bees. Enjoyment, honey, or other?

Forrested areas are not the best locations for honey bees from a flow standpoint. After the trees bloom out, there really is not much the rest of the summer and fall to support colonies. Basically, the further you get from human cultivation, the fewer and fewer wild feral colonies you find. And in the deep woods, there are few wild colonies. I know. I have done years of feral colony studies tracking, identifying, and monitoring.

Bees make their living from hedge rows, vacant pastures, roadside weeds, etc. Ever see a place where goldenrod or aster grew? It is areas disturbed and/or once cultivated. You don't see areas of goldenrod or aster in the deep woods. This is especially true in the northern areas. Bees also live off dandelions and clover. These are not plentiful in the woods.

So you would be moving them to areas with less flow or honey production, and away from the enjoyment and oversight of the beekeeper.

Location, location, location, like they say in real estate is important. Seeking out property owners with CREP or preserved farms, farms bought up by a horse owner, and other areas are the best. And staying away from field corn is important.

Unfortunately, if you exclude those who think their bees will never impacted by chemicals, those who do not care, and those who just will let others do the work, you end up with a handful of beekeepers willing to make inroads to public education and awareness of the impacts that are affecting bees. Too few beekeepers willing to get involved or do anything. So in the end, we might all just be sent by our own efforts into the deep woods.  ;)
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Offline specialkayme

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2012, 05:24:49 pm »
Wax moths not attacking the wax is really not an indication of contaminants. My have sat empty through one autumn with no attraction to the moths,but autumn two,they wiped it out.. I'll close the tube up from now on when it's not occupied.However,it was interesting to see how quick the larvae consumed the wax.

I'm not referring to wax moth damage from year to year, or even season to season. I'm referring to wax moth damage from comb to comb. In a hive, I've had one frame that has 5 year old wax next to a frame that has 2 year old wax. Wax moths will demolish the 2 year old wax, but I can't find a single wax moth larvae on the 5 year old wax, and that's located within the same hive.

Offline buzzbee

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2012, 05:55:47 pm »
I wasn't really advocating moving to the deep woods,my point was that even there you may not avoid the chemicals spread via air pollution. As Bjorn stated,most viable honey foraging areas are also in close proximity to human activity.
My observation with the wax moths,same combs,skipped over one year,hammered the next. Why were they not attracted the first fall? I don't know. But the following year,bam and it's gone.

It seems heating to the melting point does little to reduce the chemical footprint.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ejlt.200500284/abstract

Offline buzzbee

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2012, 06:06:28 pm »
Here is the article I was looking for. It may be difficult to avoid contamination.
http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/personnel/documents/Berry109.pdf

Offline Finski

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Re: Avoiding chemical contamination in combs
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2012, 01:39:53 am »
I wasn't really advocating moving to the deep woods,my point was that even there you may not avoid the chemicals spread via air pollution.

If you get honey dew from tree leaves, it may have what ever.

We talk too about "city beekeeping". Look at the dusty leaves....and honey dew pools on the asphalt...
sugar on car roofs..


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