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Author Topic: Homemade silicone vax cell mold  (Read 27460 times)

Offline flyboy

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2014, 02:30:53 pm »
Dynomite!!! that looks gorgeous. And now for the acid test, re: making foundations.

Three cheers for Capt44. You have gone where lesser men fear to tread.

I'll be following your footsteps after my first season.
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2014, 06:03:01 am »
Looks great Capt. Is they just one half of the mold. You said it makes 2 frames.
Jim
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Offline GabrielP

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2014, 08:29:06 am »
Looks great Capt. Is they just one half of the mold. You said it makes 2 frames.
Jim

I think he said make 2 frames to pour the silicone mold into them. The molds will make only one sheet of foundation at a time.

Offline capt44

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2014, 11:32:00 am »
Right, you have to pour too molds.
Front and back of the foundation which each side is offset approx. 1/2 cell.
When it is done you will put sprinkle water on the mold, pour the melted wax on the mold and close it.
Let it cool and trim the excess wax off.
Open the mold and remove the sheet of foundation.
Even with the roller type foundation maker you only do 1 sheet of foundation at a time.
In the winter or spare time you can make foundation at your leisure.
The beekeeper will have wax laying around.
Melt it down, filter it and make some foundations.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2014, 12:24:51 pm »
OK, the way they are sitting together, they look like they are both on the same board.
Looking forward to seeing how the foundations turn out.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline flyboy

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2014, 01:50:16 am »
capt,

Why not dip the two sides like Fat Bee Man does and then put then together while they harden ?

MAKING WAX=FOUNDATION=CHEAP
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline kadyscout

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2014, 08:19:25 pm »
funny how things work out. I am in the middle of making my own wax press foundation, and found this thread.
here's a few tips that I learned. keep the silicone THIN. Too thick and it won't cure and dry soon enough. In the following video
someone posted earlier. He uses ONLY a wax foundation as his mold. why?
so he can MELT IT back out in the oven, or atleast soften it. I followed this method...except I used a 100% plastic foundation, sprayed
with Smooth-On Universal Mold Release. .......not so good. ha! :( I used 3 tubs of GE II 100% silicone. Love this silicone, sets up nicely, rather
tough, feels good, looks durable. But what happened? plastic! Once I pressed my 2 boards together, I let dry 24 hrs. I added my handle, piano hinge, etc. Went to use my air compressor to work apart...not happenin'. even BLEW OUT wet silicone from deeper inside. Mmm?
I learned, silicone needs AIR to dry. Can't even budge them apart. Even set in front of oven at 130F, to warm. Not happening. dang!
2nd attempt failed. first attempt was with OOMOO-30 ....mixed well...seemed rather thin. used my plastic foundation to lay on top of poured
OOMOO.....not cool. air pockets have to be worked out of plastic foundation. should have laid foundation down, poured OOMOO over the foundation, using spreader to work out air pockets in holes. Now what? Cap's attempt looks good. My 3rd attempt will be; I'd rather use GE II, but do it a bit different.
spread GE II silicone over board, with sidewalls. I used my Cappings fork to drag marks up and down the board, to give a rougher surfice for silicone to adhear to. seems to work well. spread only 1 tube of silicone on board, as even as possible. using only wax foundation, since it's ONLY wax and the RIMS of the cells aren't as STEEP as the plastic foundation, it should release better. spread a thin film of Vasoline over wax foundation making sure to cover all. lay foundation on top of spread silicone. should be able to work our air gently. Or, spread silicone over vasoline covered wax foundation and lay on top of silicone on board. either way...should work. Since it's rather THIN, it should dry nicely within 24 hours. I'll do 2 boards like this....both seperate....not putting them together until the silicone is dry. but will they match? you should be able to look
at the foundation pattern and set them up opposite, so when they come together, they should match close enough. we only need a mild pattern of cells, nothing deep or aggressive. My question to Cap, how do you get the OOMOO patterns attached to boards, or are they already? will have to look again. More pics from Cap please? This is certainly do-able....just gotta find the right combination of system vs recipe. ha! I used OOMOO-30 first round, found it expensive. bought 12 tubes of GE II 100% silicone at $6.24 each. well.....expensive too. whatever. Still not as expensive as a Mill Roller, $1300 to $2500 bucks!  I won't sandwich the boards together this time, will gently press in wax foundation uniformly and let dry. After 12 hrs, I should be able to gently remove or blow, foundation off. Or, wait 24 hrs and blow off. My 2nd attempt, I used 3 tubes of silicone....this seemed WAAAAYYYY too much. Will only use 2 next time, 1 for each board. I think they'll dry faster and much better. My first attempt, with OOMOO-30, one side came out pretty good. The other, bad. Air pockets. I used the good one, as a test bed. sprayed water over the mold, laid in hot wax, pressed with greased board....held for a minute, pulled off board, PRESTO! wax molded nicely, even stuck to board when pulled up. the water, sank down into the deeper crevises around the cells. The plastic foundation, gives a much deeper cell wall, vs wax foundation. I don't like this. I only need THE SHAPE of the cell....with a mild ridge. the bees can take it from there. I prefer the 100% wax foundation mold now. My 3rd attempt should work out ok. Am waiting on delivery of wax foundation. even ordered more plastic foundation, to experiment with. will try to post pics after finished. if you've ALREADY done all this....please advise. hope i helped someone. thanks, ken

Offline capt44

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2014, 12:30:43 am »
I painted the release agent on the box and plastic foundation and blew it down with 40 psi air hose and let it dry for 15 minutes.
I painted on a second coat of release agent and blew it down with an air hose.
I then mixed and pour my OOMOO 30 into the mold.
I let it set overnight (12 hours) and then too the box apart and lifted the silocone rubber mold off the plastic.
I did both molds the same way.
I sealed the boards for the cover with Marine Spar Varnish and will glue down the silicone rubber mold to the covers.
I will let them dry and then place the hinge in place and screw it down.
I will then put the metal sides on an the handle on top and see how it works.
I will have to let the adhesive set up before I can use it though.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline capt44

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2014, 11:34:35 am »
Alright here's where I'm having problems.
I am trying to use an adhesive to attach the mold to the wooden covers.
I have tried different glues and such with no luck.
They will stick to the wood but not to the silicone mold.
I've tried everything from contact cement to Shoe Goo and none will stick to the silicone mold.
I have had to go back to smooth-on.com and purchase an adhesive that will stick to the silicone and the wood.
I should have it sometime next week.
Our State Bee Inspector seen this and wants one when I get it put together.
I have the wood (3/4 inch Birch plywood) stained a Walnut color and sealed with Marine Spar Varnish.
I have everything to put it together except the adhesive to attach the silicone mold to the wood.
I've got to say that silicone mold is some tough stuff.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2014, 01:17:32 pm »
Hey Capt44

try using this to make your molds. it is bar top rosin. it self levels and has no air bubbles when dry and it came loose of the plastic fondation very easy. then it epoxy's real easy to your wood frame. the only trick is you have to have a perfectly level table for it to dry on or you have a high and low end on the form.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,41344.msg353637.html#msg353637

john

Offline capt44

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2014, 12:00:47 am »
Alright! I got the mold made.
I had to put 3 brass hinges on the back but I can open and close it.
I had to wait for some adhesive that would bond to the silicone rubber.
I will try and make some wax foundations in a couple of days.
Here are a few Pictures.
I haven't sealed the wood with Varnish yet.




Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2014, 12:35:01 am »
Looks Great. did you alaign the hinges for the thickness you want to get. I had that problem with mine. I forgot to set the thickness and ended up with top thiner than the bottom. Oh by the way pre heat your forms before adding wax or you will get un even foundation. and keep a tub of cool water to set the foundation in when you working the press.

John

Offline BeeMaster2

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2014, 05:56:04 am »
Capt,
Have you made any foundations with it? How did they turn out? I suspect it will be very hard to open. You may need to screw one side to your work bench to hold it down. Good luck. Let us know.
Jim
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Offline flyboy

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2014, 12:14:49 pm »
Heer is some other vids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrk-r0QUd4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmHbBOdMDuc Check out the tunes... :) Apparently Romanian

A very nice setup. Quite expensive to buy but lots of nice ideas http://www.alfranseder.de/
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline flyboy

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2014, 12:18:36 pm »
Your foundations are probably coming from here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17nI614RMI0
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline capt44

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2014, 03:16:11 pm »
I figure the materials cost around $71.00 to make this mold, beats the hell out of $2,500.00.
It will be alittle slower but in the winter it'll give me something to do to stay out of trouble.
The only thing I see that I would do different is when I pour the silicone rubber OOH MOO 30 in the molds to use less so it will be thinner.
When I put my hinges in place I place a piece of card stock paper on the mold and closed it, then mounted my hinges for the correct thickness of the foundation.
Now I've got to build one for the state bee inspector.
Richard Vardaman (capt44)

Offline flyboy

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2014, 04:57:56 pm »
I was wondering if it was worthwhile to imbed thread in to make it stronger?

Or would that just make it a long process?
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline Sebashtion H.

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2016, 09:07:10 pm »
reviving an old topic but did it make good foundation?

Offline Sebashtion H.

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2016, 09:25:02 pm »
I figure the materials cost around $71.00 to make this mold, beats the hell out of $2,500.00.
It will be alittle slower but in the winter it'll give me something to do to stay out of trouble.
The only thing I see that I would do different is when I pour the silicone rubber OOH MOO 30 in the molds to use less so it will be thinner.
When I put my hinges in place I place a piece of card stock paper on the mold and closed it, then mounted my hinges for the correct thickness of the foundation.
Now I've got to build one for the state bee inspector.

How many molds were you able to get out of the 2 trial sizes you ordered?
Would it work to put the foundation you used to mold them back in to sandwich the boards to glue them on the molds, put the hinges on and give the proper thickness of the foundation?

Offline little john

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Re: Homemade silicone vax cell mold
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2016, 06:05:05 am »
I'm on my way out of the door, so I'll have to make this quick ...

I've only every built a foundation press inside my head, so do bear this in mind.

I've never understood why silicone rubber is used - maybe there's a reason ?
If I were building one, I'd use a thin layer of epoxy resin, spread over one side of a sheet of unwired foundation. Onto that I'd place some glass tape or similar fabric. Then when set, I'd spread some silicone rubber or similar adhesive THINLY over that, and add the sheet of plywood.

THEN, I'd invert that sandwich, and with some strips of cling film around the edges to prevent the mould from sticking together, I'd repeat that process on the other side.

Finally, I'd install the mould inside a clam-shell frame made from angle iron, with precision hinges welded along the long edges. In this way, the register between top and bottom moulds would be maintained. Only after the mould was built, would it then be separated.

I might actually build one using this technique - sometime - but I have concerns about the wax sheets sticking to a flat mould. If the use of silicone rubber does work ok in practice, I'd really like to hear about it.

Got to go now ...
LJ
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