Help me!!!!!!!!!!

[dave foo]

G'day everyone,

             Wonderin if anyone can help me out. I run a non-profit organisation in Cambodia helping poor communities and farmers to increase their incomes. At the moment, I am looking at the possibility of setting up bee hives on farms for pollination of jatropha curcas crops to create higher yields for farmers. all up, our organisation works with over 12000 acres of land owned by thousands of farmers. I was wondering if someone can tell me approximately how much it would cost a farmer who owns 2 to 3 acres, to setup a bee hive and how easy or difficult it is to train someone on this process. Perhaps if it is not too costly, maybe i can seek funding for some really keen individuals to come and help us with the training. Really looking forward to hearing from you. If you wanna check out what we do here, look up biodieselcambodia.com. Thank you

ozzie dave

[Finsky]

 
It is impossible to know what is your cost level, and on another hand to say, what are incomes against investments.

The biggest investment is first a good extractor. Self made extractor is not good to quality the honey. I may make almost free extractor my self but it is not good if you are going to run real business. Quality of honey is the most important.  To save aromas from hive to consumers jar is one key. You may ventilate honey aromas to birds of sky if your use what ever equipments.

Then you need basic hives with which to start. Best way is that some one teach how to make honey with hives.  To whom to sell and what price is the income question.  To make hives is easy job if you know what you are doing. You need first Campodian standards of hives and frames that you my get stuff from sellers.

I have wondered whole winter should I visit in Vietnam, Malaysia or some country there as tourist. That kind of beekeeping trip woud be nice to execute. Post me teerenpilkku@jippii.fi   I have 45 years experience in beekeeping and my view is business in beekeeping.

To start by own help is very difficult. By the help of mentor it is easy to get investmenst back quickly. But beekeeping is not easy. It takes at least 3 years to learn it an most beginners give up soon.

[Finsky]

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I phoned to our Foreing ministry and asked do we have something to do in Campodia. We have not but they told that there a lot foreign aid into Campodia and sometimes it is difficult to use all what is offered.

One way is to learn basics and then ask international help for investmenst.  But the unsure point is that does it start to go forward. What I have meet new beekeepers in my country, 80% give up soon because it is not what people have expected and really few raise to business level.

But this is common to all entrepreneurs.

[Michael Bush]

I would think you'd want to get the hives made local.  Shipping would kill you.  Many developing countries use Top Bar Hives which can be made without a lot of woodworking skills.

http://www.beesfordevelopment.org/
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

If you can get them made there, Langstroth hives are very nice.  Here are plans:
http://www.beesource.com/plans/index.htm

[Finsky]

I would think you'd want to get the hives made local.  Shipping would kill you.  Many developing countries use Top Bar Hives which can be made without a lot of woodworking skills.

Of course hives will be local. Cambodians have tremendous fine woodworking skills like whole Far Asia.

Top bar hives are not a way by which you are going earn money. At least whole frame is very essential in beekeeping industry.

Beekeeper needs electrict and circle saw to make his wood stuff.  The saw has many more using in agriculture.

Even if war has destroyed badly Cambodia, I hope that natural beekeepers will not destroy it more. It is very old civilization and live not in stone age. Country does not deserve it.

http://www.pbase.com/bmcmorrow/image/28438208

http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/rumdoul/Southeast%20Asia%202005/Siem%20Reap%20Cambodia/
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[Paraplegic Racehorse]

In addition to the Bees for Development site, you will probably find it useful to read Small Scale Beekeeping.

http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/small_beekeeping/index.htm

Indeed, the whole of beekeeping.com contains a lot of really good information.

[ozzie dave]

Gday everyone,

             I really appreciate the info everyone has given me. The articles and links have been really good. Thank you

ozzie dave

[KONASDAD]

Contact the Heiffer Organization. They are a long standing org that provides less advantaged countries w/ livestock. Also offer bee hives and support. Every year my office donates money for a specific item and country. This year was a goat for a village in the Congo region. Last year bwas milk cow for Ecaudorian family. I have been told they now offer bees. Cost, if you are interested in donating are often modest. The list of available animals is amazing and you are providing real help that last a lot longer then a bowl of rice or whatever.

[KONASDAD]

Curiosity got the beter of me and I ggogled the heifer org for Honey bees.
 
 Bees
Product Code: 600790031
 The Buzz About Bees 
 From India to the Dominican Republic, bees from Heifer International help struggling families earn income through the sale of honey, beeswax and pollen.

Beehives require almost no space, and once established, are inexpensive to maintain. As bees search for nectar, they pollinate plants. Placed strategically, beehives can as much as double some fruit and vegetable yields. In this way, a beehive can be a boon to a whole village.

Although most Heifer partners keep bees as a supplement to family income, beekeeping can be a family's livelihood. Your gift provides a family with a package of bees, the box and hive, and training in beekeeping. 
 Give Honey Bees
Honey Bees (+US$30.00) 

According to catalogue, they provide verything needed including techinical support.

[Finsky]

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We started to work with Dave in this issue.

[pdmattox]

good work finsky and konasdad.

[empilolo]

I am a fan of "Small Scale Beekeeping" (link by Paraplegic Racehorse) myself.

However, which bee are we looking at ? Apis cerana or Apis mellifera ?

I have been living in Africa for more than 25 years. I have watched a good number of projects founder, therefore,

a) keep it simple, make sure the people can understand and handle the tech you introduce.

b) keep dependance on importation of equipment, and especially "consumables", as low as possible; preferably at zero percent. Make it locally.

While I am a fan of the classical KTBH hive too, fellow keepers around here are switching to a modified Langstroth type hive. That is a Langstroth hive type body but using simple top bars, not frames. Very simple construction, no frills, just a box and top bars.

Somewhere in-between is > http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/adansonian_hive.htm

Oh, and Finsky, getting adventurous. Good luck, man, and have fun. Make sure you keep us posted.  :-D

[Finsky]

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Thanks.

Beekeeping is really simple if you are able to shake off all nonsence what people offer on these forums. :-D

Tech is simple: Box, frames and extractor.  - Extractor that you may make combs empty next week if it is good honey flow.  :-P
If combs are full, bees will escape.


Ian Davison has born in South Africa and he wrote that with modern system they get not 3 fold honey yields but 10 folds. He had seen.

As important as bees are the same is with pastures: where to put hives and how many. In Finland yield may differ 3-5 fold even if  distance between sites is 3 miles.

But I have understood from writings that tropical climate is not easy to European bee. We will see.

I read that in Vietnam hive system is "out of date" and breeding is not on high level. During my beekeeping time breeding has rised average yield per hive 3-4 fold.

If I go there, I will teach them the best and efficient practice - what ever it is........

Beekeeping is not frame question or box question, not at all. They are done in two days, and they may be low or high. It takes at least 3 years to learn how to make good yields, avoid swarming..., good honey quality, get customers, sell honey with good price...To sell  hives, queens ...... Most beekeepers learn these ever. Those who are afraid of stings will not succeed.

The most important in beekeeping is to learn cycle in nature and in hives.  - So you have anticipation what bees are going to do next. You need several hives to learn because hives are individuals.

My civil job is developing. My catch phrase is:" Don't take into use such methods which others are giving up ".

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[Finsky]

 That is a Langstroth hive type body but using simple top bars, not frames. Very simple construction, no frills, just a box and top bars.

With this system they will loose a lot of honey, 30-50%.

[Michael Bush]

>That is a Langstroth hive type body but using simple top bars, not frames.

The drawings and pictures in the link have frames.  How does this work without frames?  Do you have problems with attachments between boxes?  I have considered trying something like this, but am concerned about the attachments between boxes.

[Finsky]

>That is a Langstroth hive type body but using simple top bars, not frames.

The drawings and pictures in the link have frames.  How does this work without frames?  Do you have problems with attachments between boxes?  I have considered trying something like this, but am concerned about the attachments between boxes.

There are basic system, why frame is essential.

1) Langstroth moduls can loded over each other. Without frames boxes are clued together.
2) Exracting is difficult because combs will be broken under centrifucal pressure.
3) There is no reason to teach 200 years methods  to those who need earnings.
4) In Cambodia they have wood and wood work machines.

In pic frame seems to be Langstroth size. Vietnam.

http://www.worldbees.com/cgi-bin/apimages/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Vietnam&image=vietnam_14.jpg&img=&tt=


 

[Michael Bush]

>Without frames boxes are clued together.

Have you tried this?  I haven't.  I had been told the same thing about the sides and bottom when I first built a top bar hive back in 1975 or so.  It wasn't really true though.

[Finsky]

>Without frames boxes are clued together.

Have you tried this?  I haven't. 

Of course not I haven't. Never been in my mind :-D

 Of course they clue boxes together because they make bur between frames too. I must twist boxes apart of I loosen frames one by one.
 I cannot understand why to use Langstroth without frames :-D  No idea.
One professional beekeeper told  in Finland, that they have 10 hives units. They spend time 15 minutes per unit. It is  1,5 minutes per hive. Honeyboxes off and empty ones into hive.  It is just work he said. We look from one hive what is situation and we make same to whole unit.

The biggest beekeeper in Finland told that they handle 450 hives per day. "We even not talk when we work during flow time."  He has 3000 hives.

Is possible to make practice in professional level with top bar hives  :?



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[Finsky]

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Let's look the history

In 1852, L. L. Langstroth, a Congregational minister from Pennsylvania, patented a hive with movable frames that is still used today.

 Wax-comb foundation, invented in 1857, made possible the consistent production of straight, high-quality combs of predominantly worker cells. Pellett (1938) gives a detailed account of the development of wax-comb foundation.

 The invention of the centrifugal honey extractor in 1865, and its subsequent improvements, made possible large-scale production of extracted honey.

Movable frames made possible to change the queen. It was real start of bee breeding.

1969 man walk on the moon.

1984 The Terminator Arnold Schwarzenegger  salves the world. ( but he did not know that varroa had arrived to California!)

2007 we want to return back but where to ....

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