Confessions of a mass murderer... I kill every queen I touch!

[gilligan]

Well, almost everyone.

I've been attempting to mark my queens.

I've manage to mishandle a few and though I feel it was minor things it didn't work out well for the queens.

So today I go through ~13 frames to finally find the stinking queen. I put my marker tube around her, vs using a clip and transferring or trying to grab her and losing her like I've done in the past.  She walks up the tube and I pull it off and cover it with my thumb while I put the frame back in.  All is well so far.

I put the plunger in and set it down while I prep the paint and grab a blade of grass to use to mark her.  I get her on the foam pad and then let her walk under the right place in the grid and gently push/pin her against the grid and mark her.  I blow on her to help the paint dry, then when I back the plunger off she just sits there and doesn't move.  I look and see her butt is still moving so I assume she is not dead, maybe in some sort of shock?  I set the tube down and put the hive back together.  I look back over and still nothing, she has pooped out 4-5 eggs in the tube and her butt is really working now.  I call my beekeeping partner up to discuss what I should do.

As I'm talking to him (over 5 mins), she starts to show more signs of life, she is now walking around, but pretty slowly.

In the end I just decided to put her in a jzb cage and "bank" her in the hive so I can see how she is doing tomorrow or Tuesday (looking more like Tuesday based on forecast).

So anyone have any ideas on what could have happened?  Shock? Fainted? I really didn't push her harder than required to to keep her from moving as I'm already scared of damaging the queens with my luck.

Kevin

[don2]

Why not try to learn to do it by hand. I have never marked one but from what I have seen and heard it isn't that bad. It is recommended to practice on drones. They are expendable you know. Loosing a few drones won't be like loosing queens. I have witnessed a beekeeper marking one with white out with out ever touching her. On the frame while she was walking around.
The Queens don't sting as readily as the workers do. Why not google "how to handle a queen to mark her" I'm going to do that right now.d2

[OldMech]

Start catching drones and marking them for practice!  Even just catching drones and handling them will help.

[gilligan]

I did the next one like that... She was on drone comb and kept trying to duck into the comb vs climbing the tube.

I've lost a queen when trying to handle her by hand before... The tube seemed safer.

I can grab drones all day.. I grab them and give them to my daughter or any kids when doing cut outs/swarm calls.  I think the knowing that it doesn't matter if I hurt them make it easier to do so with confidence.

[don2]

Fat Bee Man has a 12 minute video on the subject. David Cushman has some pictures on how to hold the Queen. Drones don't sting. I don't trust gadgets unless they are absolutely necessary.   Remember another phrase "easy does it". d2


I forgot to ask. Why do you need/or want to mark your queens?

[little john]

You don't mention whether the queens wriggle or not when they're being marked. If they do - then sometimes they can accidently sting themselves in the leg or foot. This causes the queens to feign death for anything up to 20 minutes, after which time they gradually recover without any apparent lasting injuries.

Over the years many beeks have been caught out by this temporary state of paralysis and, thinking that they've just killed the queen, duly consign her to the underneath of a size 10 boot ...

So - don't rush, and certainly don't over-react if she appears dead. Practicing on drones to 'get your hand in' is always a good idea.
 
LJ

[OldMech]

   I could not handle a queen..  I have no feeling in a couple fingers, and I could not tell how much pressure I was using...  I only killed a single queen and never touched another one... until one day I WAS catching drones for kids, as you mentioned... and I did not want to harm them..  I was not using my thumb and pointer finger, I was using my thumb and middle finger.. I did so without thinking, and about the third drone I realized what I was doing...
   Now using those two fingers I can catch the queen. Transfer her to my other hand/fingers holding her from underneath with her legs resting on my finger.. she will actually grab hold with her feet and hang on while I hold her, then use the other hand to pick up the grass stem, dip in testers model paint.. adjust volume on stem, and TOUCH the queens thorax..   Wait a few seconds, blow lightly, then point her head downward into the frames and release her...
   I know what you mean about confidence. Catching drones IS easier, and I think they are also more robust than a queen..  I just try to remember that a queen CAN sting me so I handle her with a WEE bit more care...

[Michael Bush]

>I've been attempting to mark my queens.

Buy next year's color.  Mark 1,000 drones.  Now you are ready to try a queen...

[BeeMaster2]

Get a One Handed Queen Catcher. It will hold the queen in place for you to paint her. Much easier. Just practice on a few drones first.
Jim

[BeeMaster2]

Mann Lake has them for $17.00.

[Kathyp]

or don't mark them. 

[Michael Bush]

>or don't mark them.

:)

[gilligan]

I forgot to ask. Why do you need/or want to mark your queens?

http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=46712.0

That's an interesting enough reason for me.

Plus, I'd like to know if my hive swarms and I don't know about it.

My partner's hive swarmed, a fairly large one.  He saw it in his tree, he hived it.  But now he's unsure where it came from.  If he had marked his queens he'd know if A: it was his and B: which hive it came from (process of elimination of checking other hives).

[gilligan]

UPDATE!

I checked on her today... she was moving around fairly well so I released her.

They all stood around in a ring on top of the frames looking at her and then they started to ball her.  I smoked them heavily to hopefully mask whatever might be setting them off but I don't understand what it could be since she is 100% from that hive and spent the night in that hive in a cage.

After smoking one of the ones that were trying to ball her had mistakenly grabbed another worker bees leg and was biting at it all doubled over (not stinging, just doubled over.)  She wouldn't let go and the other bee just seemed to be hanging out wondering what was going on.

[tjc1]

I think that if they sense that there is something wrong with her, they may do her in and start raising a new queen...?

[gilligan]

I think that if they sense that there is something wrong with her, they may do her in and start raising a new queen...?

But wouldn't they make sure that that process is going good before offing her?

[BeeMaster2]

Gilligan,
Sometimes the bees will ball the queen to protect her from other bees. I watched it happen in my observation hive when I added a queen to a queenless hive. The next day she was alive and well.
Jim

[gilligan]

Thanks Jim... I can't see why they would treat her this way other than me marking her.  But she spent the night in the hive and I used Testers Model paint just like so many others. :(

[BeeMaster2]

Thanks Jim... I can't see why they would treat her this way other than me marking her.  But she spent the night in the hive and I used Testers Model paint just like so many others. :(

That is all I use. Never had a problem.
Jim