Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: utahbeekeeper on November 16, 2007, 06:18:36 pm
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. . . . when it is drizzled into a steaming cup of herb tea?
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yes, don't put honey into anything heated over 40°C or else...you might as well put a teaspoon of sugar (medicinal aspect)
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so i've really been wasting my time putting it into my tea :?
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it tastes good. that's not a waste! i don't like sugar in my tea, but i will put a little lemon and honey in sometimes.
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Utah, what's better to put in your tea, raw honey or store bought? I thought so.
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LETS se what the ole Wikapedia has to say :loll: Raw honey Honey as it exists in the beehive or as obtained by extraction, settling or straining without adding heat above 120 degrees fahrenheit. you be the judge ;) thats 48.8 C RDY-B
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Short answer = yes, it ceases to be raw in steaming hot tea. How much of a concern is that for you? That is a personal issue.
In my personal diet I take special care never to heat anything above ~110°F so as not to destroy the enzymes.
I've read that, after boiling, tea should be steeped until it cools to about 130°F in ~ 20minutes, prior to serving. (this tea etiquette is completely foreign to me, lol). If you really want to ensure your honey remains 100% raw and enzymatically active, you could measure the temperature of the liquid prior to adding. Maybe doing that once or twice and then simply allowing the same amount of cooling time or gaging it by tasting for future convenience.
Again, tepid may not be your cup of tea (couldn't resist the pun!). I drink a lot of home-brewed iced-tea beverages/blends.
Prost!
Dane
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I've read that, after boiling, tea should be steeped until it cools to about 130°F in ~ 20minutes, prior to serving.
That would make horribly strong, stewed tasting tea, of any sort.
Black tea should be made with boiling water, steeped for 3-5 minutes. Oolong should be made with boiling water, steeped for 5-8 minutes. Green tea should be made with water that is 180° - the little bubbles are just starting to rise to the surface) and steeped for 3 minutes. All of these teas can be rebrewed, the taste is different for each cup (oolong rebrewed is especially interesting, it brings out some subtle undertones that don't shine through on the first brewing). Can you tell I love tea?
(this tea etiquette is completely foreign to me, lol). If you really want to ensure your honey remains 100% raw and enzymatically active, you could measure the temperature of the liquid prior to adding. Maybe doing that once or twice and then simply allowing the same amount of cooling time or gaging it by tasting for future convenience.
Now I wonder about this. The fluid you're 'overheating' the honey with stays with the honey. I should think if you drank it quickly enough you'd still get most of the goodness of the honey. As for tepid tea, nah, I don't think so. A nice piping hot cuppa is a pleasure I won't mess with :-P
Again, tepid may not be your cup of tea (couldn't resist the pun!). I drink a lot of home-brewed iced-tea beverages/blends.
Sun brewed iced tea is awesome, I make it all summer. The sun is too weak now to do it - have to wait til next spring.
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I've read that, after boiling, tea should be steeped until it cools to about 130°F in ~ 20minutes, prior to serving.
That would make horribly strong, stewed tasting tea, of any sort.
Black tea should be made with boiling water, steeped for 3-5 minutes. Oolong should be made with boiling water, steeped for 5-8 minutes. Green tea should be made with water that is 180° - the little bubbles are just starting to rise to the surface) and steeped for 3 minutes. All of these teas can be rebrewed, the taste is different for each cup (oolong rebrewed is especially interesting, it brings out some subtle undertones that don't shine through on the first brewing). Can you tell I love tea?
Indeed - that is why I said "(this tea etiquette is completely foreign to me)". Here's the source (http://www.teaforhealth.com/brew.htm). Perhaps it's a specific technique/custom tea? (who knows... or cares... lol).
The fluid you're 'overheating' the honey with stays with the honey.
:?
I should think if you drank it quickly enough you'd still get most of the goodness of the honey.
If the end solution (honey dissolved in tea) is above 110F, enzymes will perish. How long can various enzymes survive and at what temps? That's likely a moot question as those who want something truly raw would not subject their honey to the high temps in the first place and those unconcerned with enzyme's role in health and diet would be unlikely to gulp hot tea just to potentially save a small %.
However, if there's a scientific curiosity, I believe the following formula would be a decent approximation for the effects upon the enzymes:
First, the enzymes present in honey (invertase, diastase, glucose oxidase, etc.,) and their respective (deactivation rate) coefficients, would need to be determined.
The thermal denaturation of an enzyme may be modeled by the following serial deactivation scheme:
(http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/biology/enztech/images/temper3r.gif)
where kd1 and kd2 are the first-order deactivation rate coefficients, E is the native enzyme which may, or may not, be an equilibrium mixture of a number of species, distinct in structure or activity, and E1 and E2 are enzyme molecules of average specific activity relative to E of A1 and A2. A1 may be greater or less than unity (i.e. E1 may have higher or lower activity than E) whereas A2 is normally very small or zero. For the rest of the formula go here ~> LINK (http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/biology/enztech/temperature.html).
As far as the other deleterious effects of heat upon honey (e.g. denatures and promotes crosslinks in proteins, amino acids, etc.,), I would submit they are difficult to separate from enzymes (also being a protein), are of secondary significance, and likely even more difficult to qualify.
A nice piping hot cuppa is a pleasure I won't mess with :-P
Precisely why I prefaced my additional comments (beyond the simple answer to the original poster's question) with the caveat "How much of a concern is that for you? That is a personal issue."
Despite their importance upon health, a lot of people aren't concerned with enzymes. I try to separate the personal lifestyle choices from the facts in any such discussion. To each their own. :-D
Cheers,
Dane
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To all . . . no it is of NO concern to me. I put my own raw honey in my herbal tea, it taste GREAT and I just posted that musing question to elicit conversation. Thanks for humoring me. Don't forget your honey! JP
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To all . . . no it is of NO concern to me. I put my own raw honey in my herbal tea, it taste GREAT and I just posted that musing question to elicit conversation. Thanks for humoring me. Don't forget your honey! JP
YW :) it's good to muse upon and question such things. Search for the truth in all (my motto, if I had a motto ;) ). Raw-fooders have many and unique challenges with ensuring low-heat food prep. Honey in hot tea is just such an example.
Regarding the taste alone, it would be interesting to do a side by side of two teas; both cooled to same temp (perhaps served iced), one that had honey blended in while still piping hot, the other after it had cooled below 105F and do a "blind taste test". I've read that heated honey loses some of it's flavor but unsure if it would be appreciable in tea (the tea imparting it's own flavours, etc.,).
I can't forget my honey.. especially the dwindling reserves from July's Blackberry. :'(
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hmmm, interesting "theory". i think that hot cup of tea would actually taste better than the cold one. im my opinion that's because heat, usually helps loosen up aromas, so more aroma is released if honey is hot. and aroma is usually what we call taste (you know...there are only 3 or 4 tastes? salt, sweet, bitter...).
then again...if it's too hot, you have to wait for it to cool down, and in the mean time, you're loosing aromas, so.....my guess would be that 50-70°C honey with a TS of honey would "taste" superior to other two.
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Dane, beauty, so Archangel Apiaries is gonna be your name for your honey products, eh? The picture is nice, as is the type. Have a wonderful, great day. Cindi
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this is an interesting topic to me as i am a raw fooder and love my honey raw, the one thing that i may probably do differently from most bee keepers is removing the cappings before extracting with a knive that is not heated in any way, not always an easy task, seems so much easier to damage the comb when dragging the knive down the frame
my favorite drink is honey is mixed with fresh lemon juice and water and chilled, yum :lol:
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James,
A capping scratcher works perfectly well for the method you choose!
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buzzbee, thats interesting, "a capping scratcher" i've never hear of such a thing, so imagine it is a special tool, that scratches rather than cuts the caps, i will check with the bee suppliers in town if they have one
thanks
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Heres a page with a couple photos
http://www.betterbee.com/departments2.asp?dept=466&bot=88
We use one ourselves.However if you got a lot of boxes there is better ways to do it.
A heated knife probably doesn't contact the honey itself to become an issuue as your only against it long enough to cut the wax.
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I like using the cappings scratchers as well. I was given an old heat knife and I just don't like how it puts out so much heat, things get stinking and such, and there's smoke.
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James,
Add a little ginger - fresh or even good quality powdered - to that recipe and you've got the perfect year round tonic.
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thanks zoot, will give that a try
james
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i use the uncapping knife, just rest it in some warm water in between cutting frames. i have seen the scratcher but surmise that i will lose some of the wax that i would normally get.
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In the old days we used 4 uncapping knives. Painted or marked the handles with different colors or numbers. Put a pan of boiling water on the stove and put in the uncapping knives with handles sticking over the side. Grab a frame with 1 hand and knife #1 in the other and slice, turn frame, exchange knife #1 for knife #2 and slice again. Next frame knives #3 & 4 were used and then back to #1. When the standard extrator was only 4 frames the knives had plenty of time to get back up to temp between uncappings for the next set.
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I've been told that halogen lights produce a full spectrum light and they do produce a significant amount of heat (don't ask me how I know this).
If that is true, I'm wondering if you couldn't make your sun tea in the winter.
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In the old days we used 4 uncapping knives. Painted or marked the handles with different colors or numbers. Put a pan of boiling water on the stove and put in the uncapping knives with handles sticking over the side. Grab a frame with 1 hand and knife #1 in the other and slice, turn frame, exchange knife #1 for knife #2 and slice again. Next frame knives #3 & 4 were used and then back to #1. When the standard extrator was only 4 frames the knives had plenty of time to get back up to temp between uncappings for the next set.
Brian that is exactly how I uncapped my honey last year. Only I had 3 knives that I alternated, didn't have the 4th.
So.....what you you do in the "new" days :roll: :) ;) Electric knife? Have a beautiful and wonderful day. Cindi
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So if the hony is "raw" and you put it into the tea or what ever how does that change the "rawness." Your putting "pure" honey into a product and eating it or drinking it right away. To me its still raw unprocessed honey.