Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: rayb on April 04, 2010, 10:32:53 am

Title: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: rayb on April 04, 2010, 10:32:53 am
It seems more and more people are making the decision to avoid all mite treatment and work with resistant stock, frequent comb replacement and natural comb.

Has anyone had reasonable experiences with resistant queens and what are the sources?

Thanks, Ray

Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: bailey on April 04, 2010, 10:42:26 am
go find your local wild bees.
there are your resistant queens right there.

the wild bees that are left are resistant, if not they would have died.
bailey.
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: JP on April 04, 2010, 10:50:37 am
Bailey and I use what bees we catch and remove from cut outs. Most of these are feral bees that are adapted to our area.

Our swarms are prone to be quite magical. Last yr I housed a swarm that built into one deep and three mediums in six weeks. I was able to pull an entire super from them in that time frame.

I went into winter with 36 hives and came out with 31. Treatment free.


...JP
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: Robo on April 04, 2010, 11:13:43 am
Local survivor stock here too.  ~5 years without any chemicals.   One word of advice.   Don't consider swarms as survivors, they could be from another beekeeper or commercial pollinator in the area.   I like ferals that have been known to be there at least a year.
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: deknow on April 04, 2010, 11:25:59 am
IMHO, magic queens are like magic beans....

This is not to say that one can't keep bees without chemicals/treatments...this is precisely what we do and write about.

However, I don't know of anyone that was using treatments that was able to simply stop using them by purchasing a new queen.

If you want to keep bees without treatments, you have to stop treating (it's kind of like drinking in this regard).

deknow
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: Kathyp on April 04, 2010, 11:30:58 am
what they said.   :-D
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: BjornBee on April 04, 2010, 11:41:58 am
I'll never stop treating my bees.

I may not ever use chemicals.

But going chemical free, requires a certain amount of beekeeper intervention, which I call treatments.

Nobody keeps bees, that could be considered "untreated" or completely void from the effects of beekeeper influence. That may range from the impacts of where you place your bees, the equipment you place them in, etc.

Way too many beekeepers are sold the bill of goods that stopping from the use of chemicals, means completely doing NOTHING for the bees. That is false.

To be chemical free, I have found that a complete IPM approach of the right genetics, and the right management, is required to maintain hive health, have productive hives, etc.

Treatment free is impossible. Chemical free should be your goal. They are two separate issues.
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: buzzbee on April 04, 2010, 11:54:29 am
I'll never stop treating my bees.

I may not ever use chemicals.

But going chemical free, requires a certain amount of beekeeper intervention, which I call treatments.

Nobody keeps bees, that could be considered "untreated" or completely void from the effects of beekeeper influence. That may range from the impacts of where you place your bees, the equipment you place them in, etc.

Way too many beekeepers are sold the bill of goods that stopping from the use of chemicals, means completely doing NOTHING for the bees. That is false.

To be chemical free, I have found that a complete IPM approach of the right genetics, and the right management, is required to maintain hive health, have productive hives, etc.

Treatment free is impossible. Chemical free should be your goal. They are two separate issues.

Good acclimated stock makes mechanical treatment easier though.Northern breed stock does much better up tyhis way than southern acclimated stock.Robos cutouts would probably be better suited to a PA winter than JP's.

I do agree that most folks don't think mechanical intervention is a treatment,and the difference from that and chemical treatment needs to be differentiated. But as the OPoster asked, a good queen is very helpful.
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: Kathyp on April 04, 2010, 12:32:32 pm
and be prepared for loss.  you will have to determine how much you can stand to lose before it's not worth it for you.  don't expect to end loss by going treatment free either.  you will still lose hives.

to tell you the truth, it was not really my plan to go (chemical) treatment free.  as i replaced stock with cutouts and swarms from true survivor hives, i found treatment was no longer required.

if nothing else, it saves you time and money!
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: JP on April 04, 2010, 01:14:52 pm
I'll never stop treating my bees.

I may not ever use chemicals.

But going chemical free, requires a certain amount of beekeeper intervention, which I call treatments.

Nobody keeps bees, that could be considered "untreated" or completely void from the effects of beekeeper influence. That may range from the impacts of where you place your bees, the equipment you place them in, etc.

Way too many beekeepers are sold the bill of goods that stopping from the use of chemicals, means completely doing NOTHING for the bees. That is false.

To be chemical free, I have found that a complete IPM approach of the right genetics, and the right management, is required to maintain hive health, have productive hives, etc.

Treatment free is impossible. Chemical free should be your goal. They are two separate issues.

Just for the record Mike I am not opposed to doing treatments especially in the case where antibiotics are needed, but I happen to oppose treatment with chemicals for mites, not that I have ever needed to treat for them. And no, I haven't actually used antibiotics in my hives but know others that have.

In their case, something needed to be done as it was difficult to pinpoint exactly what the problem was they were dealing with. Too many variables involved.

Sometimes I believe we do have to step in from time to time.

I do have one hive that has trouble with mites, I have not treated them. They have been surviving three yrs now without treatment.

Lately, I'm thinking of either requeening them or allowing them to make a queen from different stock, because this hive albeit is surviving, they just have not evolved to a super strong colony.

I'd rather do this than treat them with chemicals, my choice.


...JP
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: b reeves on April 04, 2010, 07:36:04 pm
Deknow
After my first year of beekeeping 8 years ago I lost 2 out of three of my hives due to varroa with treatment, I then bought Queens from weaver, at the time the had gone 15? years without chemicals I never used chemicals after that and never lost a hive due to varroa, my management ( which bjornbee calls treatment) consists of natural selection (my fingers), if a hive isn't doing well, I no longer look for the reason I pinch off the queen and they make another, I have full confidence in the bees ability to overcome all that nature throws at them, with or without mans "help"
Bob
Title: Re: Who has found the magic queen?
Post by: Michael Bush on April 04, 2010, 11:18:48 pm
I don't believe there is a "magic queen" and I don't use any treatments.  Call it what you want.  I don't believe you can get by with no treatments, now that Varroa is here, without letting the bees build their own comb or at least giving them foundation in the 4.9mm range.  But letting them build their own comb is not something I can seem calling a treatment.  How am I "treating" them?