Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: Hi-Tech on April 30, 2006, 01:52:25 am

Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Hi-Tech on April 30, 2006, 01:52:25 am
The local beek I just met told me they never use inner covers. They put the outer cover directly on the top deep.

What is the purpose of the inner cover and is it common, maybe only in the south, to not use one?
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: TwT on April 30, 2006, 03:52:14 am
I still use them but I have not ever had a SHB problem yet (clay soil), allot of beekeepers I know took their intercover off because the SHB hide on top of it, sometimes they glue the top down and its tough to get open but thats the price you pay, you could always try a migratory cover...
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Jack Parr on April 30, 2006, 07:46:47 am
When I went into this enterprize my first contact and supplier of nucs with now some 5-600 hives told me he didn't use them.

The guy lives and operates in south LA near Baton Rouge and it get plenty hot there, and, here where I live.

So I don't use them either. Actuall the bees will glue the covers, whichever you use,  to the hive box and that will prevent wind from blowing the cover off. If the INNERCOVER is used the bees will glue that to the hive box and the outer cover will be loose.

The INNERCOVER does have a cutout that does provide for some hot air to rise up and escape to aid in  ventilation of the hive. I dunno, my bees seem to have been OK last year and OK so far this year.

Just think, bees are hidden everwhere in nature with no INNERCOVERS, or, outer covers for that matter.

I have found that INNERCOVERS are useful in keeping the bees down in the box until one can place the outer cover on without smashing too many bees. Take the INNERCOVER, place it on one end of the box, level, and slowly slide it on, nudging the bees out of the way until the opposite side is reached. Then quickly place the OUTERCOVER on.

Hope this helps but you'll mostly always squish a few bees. There are other tricks to use to keep some good bees down but those are different stories for different times :wink:
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Robo on April 30, 2006, 08:37:39 am
Inner cover are not necessary, they are there so that the bees don't glue down the telescopic top covers since there is no good way to shove in a hive tool to seperate.  If you use migratory top covers, this is not an issue.  I use them between the top super and a ventilation box.  They also come in handy when top feeding with an inverted jar (the best way to feed, I might add :wink: )

Quote from: Jack Parr
Actuall the bees will glue the covers, whichever you use,  to the hive box and that will prevent wind from blowing the cover off. If the INNERCOVER is used the bees will glue that to the hive box and the outer cover will be loose.

Just flip the inner cover over after it has been used a while and there will be enough propolis on it to hold the top cover, but not to the point that you can't get it off like when the bees glue it down.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Jack Parr on April 30, 2006, 09:02:48 am
Actually if you are into the making of bee things, build your covers a little loose then the hive tools work well. Not to fear.

For an idea of what bees need to survive go back in time on this board and look at JACK PARR pics and see fo yo self wat dem bees need.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Michael Bush on April 30, 2006, 01:01:25 pm
A well glued down telecsopic cover can be very difficult to get loose.  The inner cover fixes this.  The primary reason for an inner cover is to prevent condensation on the cover in the winter.  The secondary uses are so you can open the top and blow a few puffs or smoke in.  You can put a jar or can on the hole and feed, you can prop up the top and get ventilation, if you have a notch in it you can slide the telescopic forward to get both ventilation and a top entrance.

Most of mine are simple 3/4" plywood tops the size of the hive with two shingle shims under them to make a front entrance.  I get the ventilation I want.  It also seems to keep the condensation down becuase the wet air doesn't build up at the top but goes out the entrance.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm

My early top entrances were standard migratory covers with shims under them.  Now I just cut the plywood to fit.  Also you can put the shims under an inner cover to make a top entrance and get the same benefits.
Title: inner covers
Post by: JP on April 30, 2006, 02:55:57 pm
I use inner covers and like them very much. As stated they make it easier to remove the outer cover and allow for extra ventilation. Also I find that without one the bees glue the outer cover down and when you check that hive they are aggravated more by the pop as you disengage the outer cover.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: thegolfpsycho on April 30, 2006, 03:16:40 pm
When I lived in California, I never used them.  I just viewed them as something like a hive stand.  Just something else I didn't need.  I can't even remember ever seeing one on anyone elses hives.  Now that I live in a winter wonderland, I find them a  handy piece of equipment.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Apis629 on May 01, 2006, 12:21:30 am
I don't know one beekeeper in the Tampa Bay area that uses inner covers.  I've asked about it and most share the opinion of it being just an unneccessary peice of equipment or, a death wish for the colony given, massive numbers of SHB would hide between them and the outer cover.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Hi-Tech on May 01, 2006, 12:27:47 am
Are there any tricks to keep the girls from glueing down the top cover? Maybe some vasaline on the top deep?
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Jack Parr on May 01, 2006, 07:01:43 am
NO.  

It is best to leave the bees do their thing, for the most part, IMO.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Robo on May 01, 2006, 11:56:36 am
Quote from: Hi-Tech
Are there any tricks to keep the girls from glueing down the top cover?


Yes, use an inner cover.....Sorry just had to say it :wink:



Using vaseline would be more of a hassle than just using an inner cover.  About the only thing that is certain is that you will end up getting it on your clothes.  You would have to keep lubing the super down,  lube more supers when you add them on top, keep track of which ones are lubed, etc, etc.  It is just not practical.

If you don't want to use an inner cover, use migratory tops.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Jerrymac on May 01, 2006, 02:21:06 pm
Quote from: Hi-Tech
Are there any tricks to keep the girls from glueing down the top cover?


Ummmm.... Just leave the top covers off??? :shock:
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Michael Bush on May 01, 2006, 02:39:16 pm
When you have a wind storm you will be glad they glue down the covers and the boxes etc.

Yes, the vaseline will slow them down. No, you can't stop them they will glue it down anyway.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: KONASDAD on May 01, 2006, 03:57:46 pm
ok, I know I'm new, but what the heck is SHB?
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Robo on May 01, 2006, 04:00:50 pm
Quote from: KONASDAD
ok, I know I'm new, but what the heck is SHB?


Small Hive Beetle
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Hi-Tech on May 01, 2006, 08:57:53 pm
So.... Use the inner cover and give the hive beetles a good place to hide...
or
Don't use an inner cover and scare the crap out of the bees every time I open the hive....

Dang....  This is an awkward moment....
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Summerbee on May 02, 2006, 12:29:55 pm
In the beginning, when my mind was void of any bee knowledge, I thought you were supposed to put inner covers between each super.   :oops:  That didn't work out too well.  The bees basically glued each cover to each super top (I had three supers) and there was very little movement between them.   Eventually, after carefully evaluating others' hives, I realized this was not the best thing to do, and reverted to one cover.  

Yes, my poor bees have to put up with a lot from me...
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: thomashton on May 02, 2006, 01:00:53 pm
:lol:That is the best thing I've heard all day :lol:
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Dick Allen on May 03, 2006, 12:33:52 am
This is one of those subjects that comes up from time to time on beekeeping groups. Sometimes the 'discusssion' gets quite heated. Yes, you do need them! No, you don't need them! Yes, you do! No, you don't!

I started out beekeeping some years back and used them and they seemed ok. But, then I ended up later on not having enough and just used the outer telescoping cover. That seemed ok, too. I, personally, have not had trouble with bees gluing down my outer cover to the extent that it becomes difficult to remove, but then I check my hives about every two weeks or so. I no longer use them inner covers.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Finsky on May 03, 2006, 12:46:28 am
In Finland professional use often styrofoam hive and often they have no inner cover. They use plastic foil as inner cover, so burr does not lock the stryrofoam cover.

I use inner cover and insulation. It is handy in many purposes.  Yes, we may make conversation from everything, but covers, bottom boards, entrances, color of hives and what ever  ---- do not bring honey.
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Trot on May 04, 2006, 09:20:12 pm
True - all the woodenware does not honey make... :roll:

In my 51 years as beek I can't think of setting up a hive without an inner-cover!  
That piece of woodenware has many functions and one that I would not want to be without is the use of inner-cover at feeding time, top ventilation, top entrance and the list goes on.

What is the problem here? Not enough left in the pocket to buy one?  Or too much work to handle it ?

If SHB hide too easily - cut identical size hole in the back and screen it and put something over the center one - and use it only for feeding...
Title: Are inner covers really needed?
Post by: Michael Bush on May 05, 2006, 08:59:41 am
>That piece of woodenware has many functions and one that I would not want to be without is the use of inner-cover at feeding time, top ventilation, top entrance and the list goes on.

I don't know how many times someone asks a question and the answer involves an inner cover.

What do you do with wet supers?  Put them on top of the inner cover for the bees to clean them up.

How do I get the honey out of these frames without extracting them or setting off robbing?  Uncap them and put them above the inner cover.

How do I feed?  Poke some small holes in a jar lid and set it on the inner cover.

How do I get a top entrance for winter?  Cut a notch (if there isn't one already) in the inner cover and slide the migratory cover forward.

Yes, the list goes on.