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Author Topic: Al 4 colonies queenless  (Read 3398 times)

Offline GaryMinckler

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Al 4 colonies queenless
« on: June 23, 2009, 02:09:28 pm »
Opened up hives today to find no brood whatsoever.  A sickening feeling as I went through one after another.  Zero brood in three and very little in #4.  22 days since last inspection.  New queens coming express mail, hoping to salvage.  Captured swarm is doing good.
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Offline John Schwartz

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2009, 02:10:39 pm »
Bummer! How old were the queens respectively in those four?
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Offline GaryMinckler

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2009, 02:26:55 pm »
2 packages in 07 and 2 in 08.  Original queens were replaced by bees a couple times.  I usually try to let bees do their own thing but I think spring time re-queening will become mandatory
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Offline riverrat

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2009, 02:45:04 pm »
are you sure the hives didnt swarm and the new queen just hasnt started laying yet. Another option may be that in the hot weather the queen will sometimes shut down. if there is an extended period of hot and there is a dearth on
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Offline Joelel

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2009, 03:01:03 pm »
Quote from: GaryMinckler on June 23, 2009, 02:09:28 pm
Opened up hives today to find no brood whatsoever.  a sickening feeling as I went through one after another.  Zero brood in three and very little in #4.  22 days since last inspection.  New queens coming express mail, hoping to salvage.  Captured swarm is doing good.

No queen cells either ?
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2009, 05:02:24 pm »
i think riverrat is on to something.  all 4 going queenless at once seems unlikely. 

they sure can fool you.  i bought a queen (which i never do!) for my Deliverance hive.  drove all the way out to get the queen.  drove all the way to the hive.  popped the to to find a nice, fat, queen laying away.  gave them a frame of brood to boost numbers and took my new queen home.......

guess i'll be making another nuc today  X:X
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Offline GaryMinckler

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2009, 05:20:51 pm »
One colony that did swarm is the one with a little brood.  I really don't think the others did swarm but I'm not 100% on that. I don't think they were strong enough to swarm.   Certainly hasn't been too hot with temperatures 10 degrees below average.  Very wierd to see no brood at all, especially in three colonies sitting side by side.  :?
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Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2009, 11:40:50 pm »
Quote from: riverrat on June 23, 2009, 02:45:04 pm
are you sure the hives didnt swarm and the new queen just hasnt started laying yet. Another option may be that in the hot weather the queen will sometimes shut down. if there is an extended period of hot and there is a dearth on

The chances are that if all 4 hives went broodless at the same time it is because of a nectar dearth.  Both Russians and Carniolians will into a brood dearth in the advent of a nectar dearth, Russians will even do it during a slow down of the flow.  They will also explode seeming instantly when a nectar flow starts.  
The othe possiblility is that all 4 hives swarmed with in a short time period since the last inspection.
Swarms are evident from lack of eggs/lavae, or even capped brood, the bees that hatch since the swarm replaced the bees that went with the swarm so the population of live bees can never be used as a guage of swarming.  The hive will continue to act queenright, calm, quiet, and industrious.  

Also, I'm seeing evidence, especiall with those races of bees mentioned, that they purposely induce a brood dearth of several weeks in mid summer to control varroa.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 01:35:03 am by Brian D. Bray »
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Offline GaryMinckler

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2009, 12:30:38 am »
Brian D. Bray...  I really do think it has been a bad year for nectar with rain almost daily for weeks and weeks.    Also from the outside colonies do look "queenright".  Bees bringing in pollen and storing some nectar.  Now, once again, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.  I have queens coming tommorrow or the next day.  Thanks for the info.
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Offline riverrat

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2009, 12:38:20 am »
Quote from: GaryMinckler on June 23, 2009, 05:20:51 pm
One colony that did swarm is the one with a little brood.  I really don't think the others did swarm but I'm not 100% on that. I don't think they were strong enough to swarm.  Certainly hasn't been too hot with temperatures 10 degrees below average.  Very weird to see no brood at all, especially in three colonies sitting side by side.  :?

A hive does not necessarily need to be strong to swarm. Let us know how the requeening goes
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Offline GaryMinckler

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 09:56:21 am »
Installed 4 new queens yesterday.   I couldn't stand looking at a broodless colony and had to do it.  I could not find a queen anywhere.  I would have liked to let this play out further just to be able to observe a brood dearth and then rebuilding on their own, but I just couldn't do it.  At least for now I know there is a queen in them.  If they're accepted...good.  If not, there may be a queen present I didn't see.
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Offline GaryMinckler

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2009, 03:22:36 pm »
Checked to see if queens had been released today.  All four had been released.  Didn't see any of the marked queens.  One colony had some capped brood, one other had larvae leading me to believe more about brood dearth.  If queens were released from queen cage on day one that only leaves 5 days of laying time.  If egg to larvae time is more than 5 days then there must have been a queen in at least those two.  How long is it from egg to larva and egg to capped brood?
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Offline Gware

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2009, 09:18:14 pm »
I think from egg to capped brood is nine days.
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Offline sarafina

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2009, 12:14:58 am »
I am glad you are queenright again, even if you already had queens there.  I was in a similar situation but it was early spring, so I had plenty of time to "wait and see".  My hive apparently made a new queen and it was several weeks before she started laying and I could find brood.  The waiting was the hardest because I was concerned about my hive and didn't want to lose it!  But the girls were calm and taking the syrup I was feeding at the time and bringing in pollen so my gut feeling was it was going to be ok - and it was.

My biggest concern because of where I live was the new queen mating with Africanized drones or hybrids.  As it turned out, this hive is laid back and gentle and it is my new hive that I started from a package and marked queen this year that is so pissy.  Whenever I go into the blue (newest) hive they get all riled up and come after me.  When I go into my yellow hive that re-queened itself they just wave at me with a "yo!" and go about their business.  Maybe they are Jamaican bees - "yo maan, what's up" .  LOL.

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Offline GaryMinckler

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Re: Al 4 colonies queenless
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2009, 06:58:44 am »
Thanks everybody!  My concern now is whether they will store enough honey to winter.  3 months of forage time left with one major source left.(Goldenrod) If the rain doesn't end soon I'll have to feed and hope they can make it through a long harsh winter.  :-x
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