Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => HONEYBEE REMOVAL => Topic started by: ShaneJ on November 02, 2011, 07:17:16 am
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I'm not sure if I should have this post here or in the downunder section?
Here in Australia we are coming to the end of spring (summer starts in December). I am wondering if it is too late to perform a trap out?
My next door neighbour recently had a colony move into his brick wall and a cut out is not possible.
Should I be pulling my finger out and get all the bits together to do it ASAP, or should I relax and wait till the next opportunity?
Thanks guys
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I would go ahead with the trap out and feed them if/when necessary.
...JP
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Thanks mate. I was kinda hoping you wouldn't say that though :)
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OT: So the the flies down there even aggravate the bees, eh? I like your avatar. ;) Ed
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Fortunately the flies aren't bad enough around here to wear them cool hats :-D
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I think now would be a great time in Brisbane to do a trapout, and either make yourself another hive, or boost your current one.
If you weren/t so far north, and I wasn't so far south I'd give you a hand with it.
ML
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Where abouts in Brisbane are you mate?
Shane
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Any idea how long they have been there? If less than a week or so, a trap out will go quite quick as they aren't fully set-up in the new home and will usually abscond within a week of the trap out starting.
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I am still to confirm, but could be up to 3 weeks.
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OK, then it sounds like you will be at it a while.
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Where abouts in Brisbane are you mate?
Shane
I'm half way between Brisbane and the Gold Coast.
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Oh, the dark side..
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Hi guys, here are a few pictures of the trap out cone I made. Can anyone see any problems? Pictures aren't that great..
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=44&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=52&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=57&g2_serialNumber=2)
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It looks good, if the dark color doesn't outline the entrance enough for them to recognize the way in. Hopefully, they will go by smell, and stay at the bottom of the cone, rather than orienting on the tip.
Keep us updated. Trapping is still in the experimental stage and nearly every trap out yields new info.
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The dark colour of the mesh is my concern too. Luckily its just next door so I will be able to constantly keep and eye on it.
Shane
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Its raining!!!! The weather forecast was for a nice sunny day :-x
I managed to get a stand for the hive body in place and I have blocked any other entrances/exits with off cuts of the mesh screen. I was just about to drill some holes in the brick work to fit some screw plugs to fix the ply board to.
The rain is passing over but its almost lunch time. Is it best to star the trapout in the morning? Or will after lunch be ok?
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Depends on the strength of the hive and the weather. You want enough to leave the house to be able to keep the brood frame warm the first night.
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Well the trap is in place.. Fingers crossed :-\
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Heres a quick picture. I'm concerned the box may be a tad too high?
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=62&g2_serialNumber=2)
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Some pictures of the frame I used in the trap box:
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=68&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=73&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=78&g2_serialNumber=2)
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Love the pics - good luck with your project. :)
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Not too high. Everything looks good. Nice job.
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Thanks guys. Just uploading my day one trap out video to youtube now.
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Heres a quick picture. I'm concerned the box may be a tad too high?
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=62&g2_serialNumber=2)
Not to high at all. I like to get the hive as close as possible. Ideally, the cone would sit right in the corner between the extension of the bottom board and the front of the hive body. This way , those bees clustering on the bottom of the cone would be on the bottom board.
Looks good though. The fact that they are clustering at the base of the cone is a good sign your black mesh is working.
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Robo, do you think a popsicle/craft stick would work for a "bridge" to let the cluster at the bottom of the cone an easy walk to the landing board? Seems I've seen that idea used before. ???
Ed
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Looking great so far.
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Ok guys, this is the video of day one. Please point out anything I could do better.
Trap out - Day 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ugS7U7pDeM#ws)
Shane
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Looks good to me, Shane. It makes you wonder if that lone bee would have made it back in if the screen had been regular gray #8 hardware cloth? I saw several venturing into the box, though! Time will tell...
Ed
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Robo, do you think a popsicle/craft stick would work for a "bridge" to let the cluster at the bottom of the cone an easy walk to the landing board? Seems I've seen that idea used before. ???
Ed
You could, wouldn't hurt anything, but not required at this point. Once some of the bees find the brood frame, they will pull in the others. Coroplast (plastic cardboard) election signs are my favorite material to carry with me when setting up a trap out. It is easy to cut and shape, but is still stiff enough to hold shape.
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Ok guys, this is the video of day one. Please point out anything I could do better.
What, no bee suit? :)
Looking good, just keep an eye on it for the next day and make sure they don't find/create another entrance. It was hard to tell by the video where that bee that re-entered the cone came from. Had she exited the cone and walked around and then back in (not uncommon to see happen at first) or was she actually in flight and returned to the tip of the cone?
Rob...
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Thanks guys.
Robo as much as I wanted to wear a suit, it was just too hot. Plus I didn't want to look like a big girl in the video :-D
I'm not sure where that one bee came from. I watched the cone for a long time yesterday and didn't see any bees going back to the end of it. I just happened to spot that one bee when I was editing the video.
Thanks for embedding the video for me to.
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An advantage of having an SBB is that I can get my head under and see the activity inside. There was plenty of activity both sides of the frame with the eggs.
Quick morning video:
Trap out - Day 2 Morning after setting the trap out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrueRoFfxvM#ws)
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Take note, Shane. There are foragers returning from the field and going directly into the catch box. That is a sure beginning sign of success. As those numbers increase, the time for a newly exited bee to find the box will decrease. If they don't find a new entrance, I think you are well on the way.
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Thanks Iddee, Without your instructional posts and your valued input here on this forum, I would of surely failed already. Actually I probably wouldn't even attempted this.
Thanks mate
Take note, Shane. There are foragers returning from the field and going directly into the catch box. That is a sure beginning sign of success. As those numbers increase, the time for a newly exited bee to find the box will decrease. If they don't find a new entrance, I think you are well on the way.
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Now I would suggest you watch a few of Hardwood's videos on trap outs. He has much more experience with SHB in trap outs than I do. They can devastate a trapped hive quickly.
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I noticed that Scott puts his frame of eggs in 2 days after setting the trap. I assume this is limit attracting SHB to the trap box until there are enough bees in there to protect the eggs?
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Well my trap seems to be working very well at the moment. The next door neighbour yelled out over the fence for me earlier. He said the cone was packed full of bees and they were pouring out but by the time I got there they seemed to have disbursed.
See the latest video:
Trap out - Day 2 Afternoon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTHGl4vDhnI#ws)
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Looking good! My guess is the queen is inside of the cone. Soon I would think she should exit, then most of the activity will be focused on your catch box.
...JP
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Thanks JP, I think you may have been right about the queen. I went and had a look this morning and there was no activity around the cone at all. All the bees were on the front of the box or on the landing board. And in the 10 minutes I stood there not one bee exited the cone.
Heres my reaction to a sting on the eye..A big fat swollen head.
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=80&g2_serialNumber=1)
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Ooooohhhhhhhh......
Safety goggles for a quick look?
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I normally have a bit of netting over my hat to keep them away from my ears and eyes but I was being a bit lazy and didn't bother. I'd like to say I learned my lesson but I'm sure it will happen again.
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Love the videos. Sorry about your eye.
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Here is today's video. Some really nice footage in this one I reckon.
This video was taken at 2:30pm just after the hottest part of the day. The cone was packed full of bees and they were pouring out 3 at a time.
Trap out - Day 3 Mass exit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjE131RaDag#ws)
I visited the trap at about 5:30pm again and the cone was empty with only a few bees on it. I saw a few inside the cone and a few came out every now and then but the area was very quiet so I assume all the bees in the video are now in the box. I expect the cone will be busy again tomorrow as it warms up.
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Hey, Shane. I think your trap out is over. I'm guessing, but I believe the queen has came out and entered the catch box.
A one-in-a-hundred happening, but I think you got lucky.
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Really? What makes you say that Iddee? Because the bees seem to move from the cone to the box as quick as they do?
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When the foragers leave, the inside of the cone may have a covering of bees, as yesterday.
When the queen leaves, the cone will be packed tightly with bees trying to get out, as today.
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Right ok. With my hive I have noticed during the hotter part of the day a lot of bees with exit the hive and beard on the front landing board. I was assuming those bees today were just exiting because of the heat. I could and most probably am wrong.
I'll have a look again tomorrow and see if the same thing happens.
Thanks very much for your input Iddee. I only had my hive for about 2 weeks before taking on this trap out so this has been a very steep learning curve.
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As I said above, I am guessing. They may just be trying to relieve congestion. You should know within 24 hours.
If you have a beard of bees on the screen bottom, check closely for the queen before scraping or brushing them off. She may well be there.
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Hi guys, here is a video from today. Its 3 small videos in one, Morning, afternoon and late afternoon. It appears most bees have left the wall and migrated to the catch box as very few bees are not leaving the cone.
At this point now how long do I wait before removing the cone? Do I have to wait for any eggs to complete their cycle to adult bees? Or will the eggs not get attended to now and die meaning I only have to wait on the lava stage to pupa?
Here is the video:
Trap out - Day 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orRb3FPSQPA#ws)
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Iddee, In your trap out demonstration video you say week one the queen stops laying, week 4 all brood is hatched out, and week 5-6 the young bees fly from the nest. I understand the fist job for a new worker bee is in the hive(cleaning?), but if all the bees have already left the hive, would the new bees hang around? As the new adult bees emerge from the cells at roughly 21 days wouldn't they realise there's no other bees around and just leave?
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I don't know how to answer your question, but let's look at this particular trap.
The queen left after a couple of days. Give them 4 or 5 days to become fully accustomed the the new hive. Then remove the cone. They should rob out the house and any bees left will either go to the hive box or die. Watch the bees entering the house. If they aren't carrying pollen, they are robbing. If they are carrying pollen, replace the cone.
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Ok mate. I'll try removing the cone this Saturday. Thanks
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Have you checked your trapout box too confirm a Queen
I know your working with the King of trap-outs
But I read most of the posts and didn't see anything
of it??
Shane nice set of videos and good luck with the finish
Tommyt
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To be honest, I haven't checked for a queen. I have just gone with the fact that the bees seem to be happy working hard in the box. I have a look 2-3 times a day up under the hive and I can always see them working hard drawing the foundation etc
I'm busy tomorrow morning, but unless someone here says not to, I might pop the lid tomorrow after lunch and have a look.
Also thanks for the positive comments re the videos. I hope they are helpful to other people.
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I think looking for the queen in that large a colony would be difficult. Check for q cells on the frame of eggs you put in there. If it has q cells, there's no queen. If there aren't q cells, look for eggs. The eggs you put in have hatched into larva. Any eggs you find will be from the house queen.
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Hi guys,
I have checked out the trap box and I did find queen cells on the frame of eggs I put in. I think there was maybe 4-5 queens cells but they were all still open though( this fits with the cycle of a queen).
One one of the queen cells I noticed worker bees with their heads going into it. Could they of been feeding a lava? Unfortunately I couldn't see up inside any of the cells as the location of the trap doesn't give me much room to move.
What do the queen cells look like if the original queen was in there and destroyed them? I didn't see any eggs on the frame I looked at, it seemed to be all food stores so I am not sure there is a queen in there, Would the queen wait to lay until all the foundations are drawn?
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This whole process is fascinating, ShaneJ, thanks for letting us all ride along. :pop:
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Its my pleasure..It really is :)
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Here is a video from when I opened the trap box today. Its not that good unfortunately because there isn't much room to move under that bush.
Trap out - Day 7 Opening trap box (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv7pu2_uK9M#ws)
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One one of the queen cells I noticed worker bees with their heads going into it. Could they of been feeding a lava?
yes
What do the queen cells look like if the original queen was in there and destroyed them?
If the workers destroy them they would be completely torn down (gone). Queens will rip open the side of a sealed queen cell and kill the other queen. Looks like a hole in the side of a peanut.
I didn't see any eggs on the frame I looked at, it seemed to be all food stores so I am not sure there is a queen in there, Would the queen wait to lay until all the foundations are drawn?
No, a queen will start laying as soon as the foundation is started to be drawn out. The bees will continue to draw out the comb around the egg/larvae as it grows.
From what you say/show, I would say you do not have the queen, which is most common in a trap out that has been there more than a week or so. Either she absconded or is still in the wall with house bees. Are you see any bees leaving the cone, or has all activity stopped?
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I haven't seen any bees leaving the cone at all the last few days. I can see 3-4 bees inside the cone on the entrance to the wall but in the time I watch they they don't seem to move from the entrance.
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Newly assigned guard bees from the remnant left inside the wall?
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One one of the queen cells I noticed worker bees with their heads going into it. Could they of been feeding a lava?
yes
What do the queen cells look like if the original queen was in there and destroyed them?
If the workers destroy them they would be completely torn down (gone). Queens will rip open the side of a sealed queen cell and kill the other queen. Looks like a hole in the side of a peanut.
I didn't see any eggs on the frame I looked at, it seemed to be all food stores so I am not sure there is a queen in there, Would the queen wait to lay until all the foundations are drawn?
No, a queen will start laying as soon as the foundation is started to be drawn out. The bees will continue to draw out the comb around the egg/larvae as it grows.
From what you say/show, I would say you do not have the queen, which is most common in a trap out that has been there more than a week or so. Either she absconded or is still in the wall with house bees. Are you see any bees leaving the cone, or has all activity stopped?
Thanks for this information by the way. Lots to remember.
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Newly assigned guard bees from the remnant left inside the wall?
Very possible. At this point I am not sure if I should remove the cone. On one hand I am thinking I should wait a few more days but on the other I am concerned about SHB destroying the hive in the wall and making a mess. I guess I could remove the cone and see what happens. If bees start taking pollen etc in the wall I could put the cone back. Sound like a plan?
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I imagine iddee will respond shortly with the right info. :)
In my feeble, unexperienced mind I would go ahead and remove the cone. As you stated, the issue the beetles making a mess of the hive...lots of difference between some empty comb remaining in the wall and a couple of gallons of fermenting honey. :-P There appears to be no more appreciable number of bees exiting from the wall and since the bees in the catch box are already working with some queen cells I would think they would start robbing the hive in the wall in short order. Take the cone off, rub a little honey on the entrance and see what happens.
Naturally, all disclaimers apply because I have no idea what I'm talking about. :-D
Best wishes,
Ed
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Yes I must stay focused and remember that the number one goal is to remove the bees from the wall without leaving a slimy mess behind. Receiving a new hive at the end is just a bonus.
Unless the more experienced guys say other wise, I'll try removing the cone tomorrow and see what happens.
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I think? ? and thats a BIG think
your original Queen may still be in the hive
If she is they will begin to rebuild as soon as the cone
is removed :?
How many days total from the setting of the cone
If it is only 9 days or so you are way early
I'd wait for now till Iddee/Hardwood or others post up
Tommyt
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For a normal hive, yes, it is way to early. The time this hive has been there is unknown. It could be a very new swarm. The number of bees exiting the first 3 days was very high. Too high for a normal trap out. I think, tho not sure, that the queen has left the house. Whether she is in the box or not is unknown.
I would remove the cone and watch for pollen going in. Hopefully, the box bees will rob the house out and remove any bees that may still be there. If not, the cone can be replaced.
Remember, the trap out method is still new and experimental. Each one teaches us a little more. As said above, thanks for the thread. It is enlightening to all of us.
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Based on your original post, I'd guess that the hive was in there around 2 weeks?
If so, they have big white wax combs, a little brood and a little pollen/honey. I don't think that the SHB can make too big of a mess with that.
I agree that they are most likely all out of the wall, but I'd give them a little bit more time with the cone on, just to be sure, I don't think that that will hurt. Personally I'd rather take the chance of a few SHB in there rather than the chance that the bees would move back in.
Rick
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Hi guys, I decided to remove the cone. I have been watching it for an hour after removing the cone. I must its very boring :-\
There are still a handful of bees in the wall and they are guarding the entrance well not letting any of the foragers in. I'm now unsure what to do? Should I leave the cone off and keep watch to make sure no pollen goes in and hope the forager bees over power those guards?
What are the guard bees guarding? Just the remnant of the colony or possibly the original queen? When do the guards stop guarding?
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Do you have any bee quick? A few drops of that in the hole may tell you how many are left. Or just rub a little honey around the hole and see if it will get the robbing started. I would wait until bees start going in and out. Then look for pollen.
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The fact that the foragers are returning to the old entrance says they haven't forgotten or abandoned it and possibly that there is something worth returning too. A well laden forager will be more readily permitted than an unladen bee trying to rob. Any short term trap out that I have done, they have all left. I'm thinking their is still brood, food and perhaps the queen still in there. Lets face it, a established colony doesn't abscond in a week of no incoming food. Bad weather can make them go a longer stretch than that.
I wouldn't have removed the cone yet, but that is just my thinking. Looking forward to hearing what happens.
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At this point only a few foragers have gone to the wall entrance. I did put a dab of honey on the entrance to the wall to try and entice them to rob it but it didn't work. The honey brought out bees from the wall to clean up.
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At this point only a few foragers have gone to the wall entrance..
I would replace the cone
A few foragers may blossom into many,many more :shock:
tommyt
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I have put the cone back. The fact that nothing exciting was happing was what put me off. Every now and then a forager(a bee from the trap box would check out the entrance in the wall but would be chased off by the guards. Nothing else at all was happening. No bees from the wall we flying off looking for pollen etc
I'll leave the cone on for another few days and see what happens. It would be nice to get those guard bees out of the wall.
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I was wondering if there was a way to coax a few more bees out of the wall so I put a few dabs on honey on the board around the cone. Within a minute some very small worker bees came out of the wall, worked their way out the cone and went straight to the honey. A minute or so later, a very large drone exited the cone followed gradually by a few more vary large drones. One or two of them flew around the cone and around the trap box and the rest flew off somewhere.
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There's more than likely a small amount of brood in there that there are a few bees left tending. They won't leave till either the food is all gone or the brood is hatched. Some of the nurse bees are probably turning into foragers if honey is getting low, and if the queen left they'll try raising another. They probably wouldn't survive, but not worth the chance at this point...
I don't know how many are left, but I think you might be surprised at how many bees could still be in there. The nurse bees and many of the drones will often stay in the hive for a while after the foragers are gone. They'll trickle out as the brood dies and the stores dwindle.
Getting 90%+ of the bees out in 5 days is great, though!!
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Thank you mate.
I'll keep and eye on it over the next week and see what happens.
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Hey guys, I have a very exciting update. It seems a ton of newly hatched bees have left the wall.
I went over this afternoon at 3pm to checkout the situation and I found the front of the trap box covered in young bees. I don't believe there were that many capped brood cells on the frame I put in the box so these young bees must of come from in the wall.
Unfortunately my video camera had a flat battery when I went over so I don't have a video yet but I did get a few still pictures.
These young bees were on the side of the box:
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=161&g2_serialNumber=2)
(http://www.greenwattle.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=166&g2_serialNumber=2)
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I have been thinking about these "young" bees and now I am mega confused. From what I understand about bees and from what I have been reading, bees don't actually grow, they become adult bees from lava. So this raises a question. Why all these small bees?
Here is a video from this afternoon.
Trap out - Day 9 Young bees (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq_vK5PhGT8#ws)
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Hi again, Sorry for all my gibberish posts in this thread. I'm kind of using it as a scribble pad.
I've been thinking and reading more about these small bees. The bees that I trapped out in the first few days would of been the original swarm that moved into the wall. So could these small bees be because the swarm built a more natural size cell size in the wall?
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Interesting thought, Shane. I'm sure that the natural comb could be a possibility as to why the young bees are smaller. I wonder if the reduced number of nurse bees on the brood would have an effect?...but would have these young bees already have been capped when the older bees were trapped out?
I noticed a beetle around the exit at about the 1:47-1:52 mark in the video.
Very interesting situation that you have.
Ed
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So could these small bees be because the swarm built a more natural size cell size in the wall?
It could be a sign that they swarmed from a feral colony. It takes more than one generation of free comb building to get a noticeable cell size difference.
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Interesting thought, Shane. I'm sure that the natural comb could be a possibility as to why the young bees are smaller. I wonder if the reduced number of nurse bees on the brood would have an effect?...but would have these young bees already have been capped when the older bees were trapped out?
I did wonder if the lack of nurse bees feeding the brood would mean smaller bees.
I noticed a beetle around the exit at about the 1:47-1:52 mark in the video.
Nice spot. I looked at the original larger/higher quality video and its just an ant :) There are beetles in the trap box though.
Very interesting situation that you have.
Ed
I'm glad its as entertaining to others as it is to me.
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So could these small bees be because the swarm built a more natural size cell size in the wall?
It could be a sign that they swarmed from a feral colony. It takes more than one generation of free comb building to get a noticeable cell size difference.
If they had swarmed from a feral colony wouldn't the original bees be small also?
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Yes I would say an original Feral swarm would be small also
But I'm still in the MBush Learning league :-D
Tommyt
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Hey Shane, it's time for an update.
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You are right, sorry about that. been very busy here. I'll try and get over there later on today. What would you like me to get an update on? It hasn't been long enough for a new queen to have hatched in the trap box yet so I don't think I should try inspecting any frames in that.
I could possibly try removing the cone again.
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You set the trap Nov. 4. The new queen should have emerged on Nov. 16 or 17. She could start laying anytime after Yesterday. It could be as late as Dec. 5 before the first eggs.
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I thought it was 16 days before a queen hatches?
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yr7B7hWxr8Y/TDd20BkWJKI/AAAAAAAAAHE/1Wi4854SOV4/s640/castes_of_bees_and_length_of_time.png)
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Three days for the egg to hatch. Workers create new queen from larvae 1-3 days old. Figuring 16 or 17 days for a queen to go from egg to emergence figure that the queen could actually have emerged sometime between the 14th and 17th....egg/larva age being the main variable. Figuring 16 days for queen emergence and starting on the 4th with a two day old larva I come up with a queen emerging on the 15th.
I know I'm messing up somewhere.... :-\
Ed
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Hopefully I'm using the correct figures and the calculations below aren't too confusing. Dave Cushman stated that egg hatching is normally 72 hours but that it can be from 2 days to 6 days...depending on weather and probably other conditions. I may be way off base on my calculations so take them with a big pinch of salt. ;) Ed
4 Day of month
-3 Egg to "hatch"
-1 1 day old larvae used on 4th
16 Days to maturity
---
16th Queen emerges
4 Day of month
-3 Egg to "hatch"
-2 2 day old larvae used on 4th
16 Days to maturity
---
15th Queen emerges
4 Day of month
-3 Egg to "hatch"
-3 3 day old larvae used on 4th
16 Days to maturity
---
14th Queen emerges
4 Day of month
-3 Egg to "hatch"
-1 1 day old larvae used on 4th
17 Days to maturity
---
17th Queen emerges
4 Day of month
-3 Egg to "hatch"
-2 2 day old larvae used on 4th
17 Days to maturity
---
16th Queen emerges
4 Day of month
-3 Egg to "hatch"
-3 3 day old larvae used on 4th
17 Days to maturity
---
15th Queen emerges
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Ahh yes, thank you. I didn't account for the fact the egg was already laid. :fishhit:
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"""Figuring 16 days for queen emergence and starting on the 4th with a two day old larva I come up with a queen emerging on the 15th."""
And I figured they would start with a 1 day old either the same day, "4th", or not realize they were queenless until the next day and start a 1 day old the next day. "5th", thus emerging on the 16th or 17th.
It is all variable, but you could have eggs now, or anytime in the next two weeks.
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I'll try and get over there shortly and pop out the frame I originally fitted with the eggs. Think I should try removing the cone again? I have been keeping an eye on the entrance to the wall but haven't see any more bees come out. Every now and then I do however see a single bee just inside the wall.
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As said before, I would remove it and watch the bees going in.
No pollen, leave it off.
Pollen going in, put it back on.
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Hi guys, here is a video from today:
Trap out - Day 18 Trap box inspection (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ia3RlFpjTM#)
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#1.. I have no sound on my computer, so I need typed words.
From watching in silence, I can see you need another box on the hive. Also, when inspecting any hive, I highly recommend removing an outside frame, then moving each frame to the side a bit before lifting. It keeps from rolling the bees, making them mad, maybe killing or injuring a few, possibly even the queen.
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yeah I was thinking another box too, they gonna want to swarm before you finish the trap out :lol:
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#1.. I have no sound on my computer, so I need typed words.
:-D Maybe I'll send you some speakers to thank you for your help with this trap out.
From watching in silence, I can see you need another box on the hive. Also, when inspecting any hive, I highly recommend removing an outside frame, then moving each frame to the side a bit before lifting. It keeps from rolling the bees, making them mad, maybe killing or injuring a few, possibly even the queen.
Another box? Already? Thats going to make it very very awkward to move when the job is complete :-\
Thank you for the tip remove an outta frame first. I'll try that next time. Do you have any tips for replacing the lid?
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they gonna want to swarm before you finish the trap out :lol:
Don't say that!! :-X
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Thanks for the speaker offer. They will have to be installed in my head. My ears are the problem, not the computer.
To save on weight, replace a few honey frames with foundation and freeze the honey frames. Reinstall them when the hive is placed permanently and a box is added.
Set the lid on diagonally and twist it into place after lightly smoking the hive to run them down.
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Nice video shane. Thanks.
Jim
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Thanks for the speaker offer. They will have to be installed in my head. My ears are the problem, not the computer.
To save on weight, replace a few honey frames with foundation and freeze the honey frames. Reinstall them when the hive is placed permanently and a box is added.
Set the lid on diagonally and twist it into place after lightly smoking the hive to run them down.
Thanks again.
I am ready to add another box to my other hive, could I take 2 frames of honey from this hive and put in the new box on the other hive?
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Nice video shane. Thanks.
Jim
No worries Jim.
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Yes, two or more.
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Thanks. I will do that.
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When I take the frames of honey out would I be best adding the new frames in the centre as that is where the queen prefers to lay?
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I would place them where each one has a full frame on each side of it. Then they can't draw it out one-sided. Where in the box doesn't matter.
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Hi guys, I have a few updates.
I went over yesterday, planning on pulling a few honey frames out and replacing them with foundation. Unfortunately the area under the lid was full of honey so I decided that just swapping out some frames wasn't going to do the job.
I ended up adding a super to give them the room they needed. I pulled 5 frames from the bottom and put them in the top and added 5 new frames to the bottom, alternated with the frames of honey. I also did the same in the top with 5 new frames.
Is 5 new frames in the bottom enough for a new queen? Will the bees eventually move the honey out of the "brood box" to allow more room for the queen to lay?
Today I went back over just to make sure I didn't cause any problems yesterday and I noticed plenty of small bees coming out of the wall. It's now 22 days since initially setting the trap so these small bees must have recently hatched. They were flying off to forage and then coming back loaded with pollen by the looks of things. As I was watching all of these bees coming out, I happened to notice they were also getting back in - behind the ply board!! I quickly sealed this up and hopefully stopped them from being able to do this. I don't think the bees from the wall have noticed the gap behind the board (created by my fiddling with the board and trying to remove the cone prematurely) until today so I don't think it had caused any problems until the newly hatched bees appeared and found it. As previously noted with this colony, the bees coming out the wall again today were much smaller than your average hived bee. I am assuming that again this is because of a more natural cell size?
I have a video of todays adventure which I'll post up a bit later.
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Here is the video from today:
Trap out - Day 22 More bees leaving the wall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4MsBL83Y5I#)
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Shane
I may be wrong but in the vid prior to above I believe I see Larva
@ about 4:30 in the vid and @ 5:15 ,If this is so your queen has
all ready started to Lay,what I see @ 4:30 is right above the open
Q cell and a bit right
I also this with the leak you had and the amount of bees in the original
trap out hive,you can remove it and start another hive especially if your first
queen has been laying.
Good luck
Tommyt
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Thanks Tommy, Unfortunately I don't think I have a frame of eggs to spare to be able to start another box :(
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Congratulations! :cheer:
It looks like all your efforts are paying off and you are going to have a great new hive on your hands.
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Thanks.
I am very happy with this hive. Its kinda unbelievable really that I was watching a lot of JP and schawee's videos of removals hoping I would get the chance to do something similar one day. Even more unbelievable is that I was watching JP's video of Iddee's trap out demonstration just a few minutes before the next door neighbor called me over.
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Hi guys, I still have plenty of bees coming out of the wall so I have been thinking about setting another box.
Could I take the super of the current trap box add a bottom board, fit a frame of eggs and use this as the next trap box? My thinking is that it will already have bees to look after the frame of eggs I add.
Thanks
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Thanks.
I am very happy with this hive. Its kinda unbelievable really that I was watching a lot of JP and schawee's videos of removals hoping I would get the chance to do something similar one day. Even more unbelievable is that I was watching JP's video of Iddee's trap out demonstration just a few minutes before the next door neighbor called me over.
Kinda sounds like it was meant to be. :)
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It has been 28 days since you set the trap. The new queen should be laying now, or within a very few days. Be sure you move her and not the queenless half.
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You mean make sure she is in the bottom half I move away?
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Awesome videos ShaneJ. Thanks for sharing with us.
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Yes
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Hi everyone, here is a quick video of the new trap box in place. The bees took to it straight away.
Trap out - Day 29 New trap box (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgSJwznYgxc#ws)
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Thanks for the update Shane. Keep them coming. They really help to understand what it will take to do one when it becomes necessary.
Jim
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Great thread,thanks Shanej
Mike
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No problem. I hope it helps out you guys.
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Thanks for the update Shane. Keep them coming. They really help to understand what it will take to do one when it becomes necessary.
Jim
What he said X:X
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A bit of an update fro you guys.
The last few days I have noticed no bees leaving the wall and no bees sitting on the entrance. So I planned to remove the cone today and let any robbing begin.
First thing I noticed when I went over was a small trail of ants going into the wall. If any bees were left surely the ants wouldn't be going in? I removed the cone and put a dab of honey on the entrance to invite the bees over and check it out. I watched for about 15 minutes and nothing happened so I went back to work.
Another 15 minutes later I remembered that below the entrance to the wall was a seep hole that I blocked with mesh so I went over and pulled the mesh out. What did I find?? Beetle grubs!! I didn't see any slime or smell any bad odors(Yet) but it doesn't look good. The beetles are really bad around here at the moment and plenty of people are loosing their hives :(
While over there I pulled the lid of the new trap box to see how they were going and all appeared to be well. Plenty of bees but they haven't drawn all the frames of foundation as yet. They seem to be just working around the frame I fitted with the eggs. Over the other side of the box I could see plenty of beetles. They were gathering around the ends of the frames hiding from the bees. On 2 of the frames I could see the bees had trapped the beetles in with propolis. I left them alone and didn't move any frames to disturb them but using a small stick I squashed as many beetles between the end of the other frames and the side of the hive where they were hiding.
Fingers crossed the bees will keep fighting the beetles off till a new queen can produce some more workers.
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I have been back over again and this time I took a torch with me. Using the torch I could see in the entrance of the wall and could see the comb directly behind. All the comb I could see was uncapped and looked to be dry. A few bees from the trap box were entering the wall and having a look around but i couldn't tell if they were coming out full of honey or not.
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Sounds like a turning point in the process. I've no experience at this, but I think I would move the trap and set up something to catch/trap those beetle larvae as they leave the wall.
Thanks again for sharing this entire experience with us.
Ed
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I have setup the ants at the seep hole to take care of the grubs. Doing a good job too ;)
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How hard was it to train those ants to do that? :-D
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It wasn't that hard. Just need to give them words of encouragement and never single them out and put them down in front of their work mates.
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Do uncles work as well as ants?
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No I don't think so. Uncles are normally old with poor eye site. They probably cant see the small grubs.
Hangon... I'm an uncle! :-\
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Shane
Looks like your adventure is coming to an end.Hope both your new colonies do well,
Thanks for documenting the whole process.
Tommyt
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Hi Guys,
Today I had a look in the first trap box and found no eggs or capped broad. I did however see some capped drone cells and a fully capped queen cell. Can anyone explain this? I was thinking that maybe none of the queens made by the trapped out bees survived, but if this was the case how did I get the drone cells and the queen cells? I'm now starting to think that they swarmed but if this was the case wouldn't there be at least some capped brood?
Thanks
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Add another frame of eggs
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How did you go with this mate?
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Ditto Wadehump. Add more eggs.
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The first trap box is still hanging on, just. The hive has a few drone layers in it which is making things difficult. I added a frame of eggs a while ago but the produced queens were destroyed. I know it was bound to fail but I even added a new queen but they removed her.
I added another frame of eggs just the other day so we'll see how it goes this time.
The second trap box is a different story all together. They are almost complete through filling a second super. Oddly enough they started storing honey under the lid before all the foundation in the brood box was drawn. And still a few frames in the brood box are not fully drawn.
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The first trap box is still hanging on, just. The hive has a few drone layers in it which is making things difficult. I added a frame of eggs a while ago but the produced queens were destroyed. I know it was bound to fail but I even added a new queen but they removed her.
I added another frame of eggs just the other day so we'll see how it goes this time.
Could you try a shake out?
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Do you use hive mats on top of your frames? I haven't seen any in your videos. A piece of offcut lino or plastic sheet place on top of the frames will prevent bees from building above the frames. It doesn't have to cover the frames entirely but this should help.
Nice videos and thanks for sharing your experience.
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The first trap box is still hanging on, just. The hive has a few drone layers in it which is making things difficult. I added a frame of eggs a while ago but the produced queens were destroyed. I know it was bound to fail but I even added a new queen but they removed her.
I added another frame of eggs just the other day so we'll see how it goes this time.
Could you try a shake out?
Yeah thats the first thing I did when I found no queen and the drone layer. Either the layer went back in, or another took over. But I did shake them out twice with the same result.
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Do you use hive mats on top of your frames? I haven't seen any in your videos. A piece of offcut lino or plastic sheet place on top of the frames will prevent bees from building above the frames. It doesn't have to cover the frames entirely but this should help.
Nice videos and thanks for sharing your experience.
No I don't use an inner lid or mat. I imagine this would just give another place for beetles to hide. I'm not sure I want to stop them building under the lid anyway? To me it seems like a good way to tell that they want more room. I add a super and they stop building under the lid.
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What I did when I had a laying worker, was to feed them heavy so they back fill the brood frames so there is no room for the worker to lay , and then put a frame of open brood in once a week for 3 weeks then introduce a new queen.