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Author Topic: Ant Eggs  (Read 3188 times)

Offline TheMasonicHive

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Ant Eggs
« on: June 03, 2010, 02:49:43 pm »
Hello everyone,


Today I went to do a quick check of my hives to see how they're progressing.  I've made a habit out of scraping off my screened bottom board tray with my hive tool when I get there because I have been getting an awful lot of ants.

Today I pulled off one of my trays and found bundles of eggs which the ants were all over.  They were picking them up and carrying them.  I'm PRETTY sure they weren't bee eggs because I could see something super tiny and black moving around in them, but my question is is this normal?

I scraped them off and used some vasoline to apply around the edges so that its too sticky for them to venture onto the tray, but I saw those eggs and got slightly concerned.

Thank you for your help in advance!
Christopher Peace
Oakland County, MI

"It teaches us that, as we come into the world rational and intelligent beings, so we should ever be industrious ones; never sitting down contented while our fellow-creatures around us are in want, when it is in our power to relieve them without inconvenience to ourselves." - Freemasonry on the Beehive

Offline iddee

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2010, 04:58:54 pm »
No, it's not normal, because it's not normal to leave the board under the screen bottom. It is normal to store the board in the barn or garage.

Yes, it was ant eggs. They will eventually kill your hive if you don't remove the board.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline luvin honey

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2010, 05:00:25 pm »
iddee--would you be willing to explain more about ants versus bees. I have an ant problem. Now I'm starting to wonder if that is what took down my overwintered hive this spring. I had been under the impression that a healthy hive kept out other pests.... Can you explain more?
The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson

Offline TheMasonicHive

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2010, 05:07:57 pm »
OK, I'm definately taking it off today.  I've heard it plenty of times now to where if I don't do it I'm just being pigheaded.

Thanks Iddee
Christopher Peace
Oakland County, MI

"It teaches us that, as we come into the world rational and intelligent beings, so we should ever be industrious ones; never sitting down contented while our fellow-creatures around us are in want, when it is in our power to relieve them without inconvenience to ourselves." - Freemasonry on the Beehive

Offline wd

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2010, 06:25:00 pm »
No, it's not normal, because it's not normal to leave the board under the screen bottom. It is normal to store the board in the barn or garage.

Yes, it was ant eggs. They will eventually kill your hive if you don't remove the board.

Why do suppliers make screened bottom boards to fit bottom boards, money, time of year or ?

Offline MrILoveTheAnts

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2010, 06:28:58 pm »
Yes, it was ant eggs. They will eventually kill your hive if you don't remove the board.

That seriously depends on the ants. They were probably just using the location to incubate their brood.

Offline luvin honey

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2010, 06:43:21 pm »
Yes, it was ant eggs. They will eventually kill your hive if you don't remove the board.

That seriously depends on the ants. They were probably just using the location to incubate their brood.
MrIlove--can you tell us more? I have ants in the backs of my hives (behind the follower boards) and under the cover, plus under the door to the observation window. Which ones should I be concerned about? Thanks!
The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson

Offline Kathyp

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 06:51:06 pm »
mine are still closed.  it was 40 and raining this AM.  i get the little black ants and they are pesky, but don't damage the bees.  they will get into the honey if there are not enough bees to tend, but most times they take dropping off the bottom.
Someone really ought to tell them that the world of Ayn Rand?s novel was not meant to be aspirational.

Offline iddee

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2010, 07:51:53 pm »
Ants will get in and make a nest anywhere the bees can't get to them. On the board under the screen bottom, on the inner lid if the shallow side is up, or any other protected area. As their numbers grow, the honey supply will shrink. Soon there won't be enough for bees and ants.

The kind of ants?? Is there a kind that won't eat honey or gang up on an insect? If so, I've never seen them in a hive.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline luvin honey

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2010, 08:00:57 pm »
Thank you. I think I probably have ants due to leftover sugar in the back of the hive after winter.
The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson

Offline wd

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2010, 08:47:00 pm »
So far, what I'm seeing is they've been after feed, it seems to start with sugar. Moisture or water is something they seek too. I haven't had ants nest in a hive with bees in it, yet.

Understood, thanks for the replies!

Offline MrILoveTheAnts

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2010, 07:23:12 pm »
Alright I can't speak for people living in souther states (below North Carolina) where the red imported fire ant can be found or out west where it's found along side with the Argentine ant.

Up north where we are though I don't think there are any ants that could be considered a threat to the hive. Adult ants don't eat much, and can go a month or two without food. The hunger of the colony is driven by the larva which eat protein rich food, insects. Outside the hive you'll see them picking off the bees who's wings have stopped working, usually in the spring after clean up when they toss out the dead.
Example

They're so devoted to the brood that they incubate them whenever they can. Usually this is under stones or logs outside. Some species are more nematic than others though and I can see them as being a real problem, but usually not enough to kill the hive.

Acrobat Ants, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/mrilovetheants/Ants 2010/CrematogasterAppleAphids.jpgCrematogaster
Note the heart shaped abdomen that comes to a point, and how they can flex it up over their head like a scorpion. They nest in hallow wood cavities such as the attic to a beehive. And they form sub colonies with continuous foraging trails linking them great distances. I had a colony of these ants living in the attic to one of my hives, with the foraging trail extending across the full length of our fence both ways and through several neighbor's yards, with sub colonies (pit stops) all along. I used shortening (the creamy white stuff) around the outside of the supports. As for the ants inside I just dumped them. Take the bee brush and scoop em out. These ants are bad because they eventually start digging into the wood they inhabit. The colony eventually moved on.

The Odorous House Ant, Tapinoma sessile
Tapinoma sessile scattering
Notice the bullet shaped abdomen. (And I could go on to say they lack spines, only have one waist segment instead of two, the eyes fall lower on the head but that's not that important.) To really clinch the ID, crush a few and they should smell like blue cheese or "rotting coconuts." The odor is only smelled after you've crushed a few.

These are another opportunistic nesting ant. Just like Acrobat Ants I've found these in the attic area of my hives nesting. They're easier to get rid of, just toss em and take your bee brush for the rest. The colony will move, even if they don't get the idea the first time. Usually they aren't a problem but an odd thing is happening. Colonies of this native ant normally have multiple queens (similar in size to the workers) but colonies get bigger as they occur in urban areas, while rural colonies remain divided and small. Really they're just an issue for city beekeepers and maybe suburban.

Those are the only two ants I really see as a problem to a beehive.

Offline iddee

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2010, 07:53:17 pm »
Here we have what is commonly called a sugar ant. It is tiny, black and will find a piece of dropped candy in a heartbeat. A piece of cake or a doughnut will bring hundreds, if not thousands, in a matter of hours. If they can get between the inner and outer lid, and it is too narrow for a bee to enter, they will set up a nest. That nest will feed off the honey and grow until it empties it.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline MrILoveTheAnts

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2010, 09:17:49 pm »
Here we have what is commonly called a sugar ant. It is tiny, black and will find a piece of dropped candy in a heartbeat. a piece of cake or a doughnut will bring hundreds, if not thousands, in a matter of hours. If they can get between the inner and outer lid, and it is too narrow for a bee to enter, they will set up a nest. That nest will feed off the honey and grow until it empties it.

Is taking a bee brush to them really so hard? Also ant common names are so ineffective at narrowing down what the ant is. I'd need clear pictures of what they are.

Offline TheMasonicHive

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2010, 09:54:48 pm »
You take a bee brush to them for 10 seconds, then leave for an entire week for them to do their bidding!

I've noticed quite a few ant hills in front of my hives.  They weren't there when I started setting up equipment and installed.  They look a bit ominous, but they are tiny black ants...the kind we used to burn with magnifying glasses when I was younger.

I really don't know how much of a harm they can be but they certainly aren't HELPING anything.
Christopher Peace
Oakland County, MI

"It teaches us that, as we come into the world rational and intelligent beings, so we should ever be industrious ones; never sitting down contented while our fellow-creatures around us are in want, when it is in our power to relieve them without inconvenience to ourselves." - Freemasonry on the Beehive

Offline Grandpa Jim

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Re: Ant Eggs
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2010, 02:23:59 am »
I find ants as, if not more, fascinating as my bees (they have never produced anything for me to eat like the bees, but than neither have any of my cats).  I have found many carpenter ants taking antvantage of the warmth of the inner cover to store hundreds of eggs and larvae, or taking some honey from some empty supers stored outside.  But take down a working hive...Have not seen that(at least with the ants we have in PA)

TheMasonicHive, just maybe that ant hill in front of your hive has set up there because they enjoy meals of SHB pupa?? You never know!  Nature works if we let it.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 11:31:24 am by Grandpa Jim »