Swarm Trap Size

[wisnewbee]

I'm wondering about the sizes people use for swarm traps. I was leaning towards using a 5 frame Nuc like the DCoates I found on this site. I like the size, weight, easy construction, the list goes on. However, while doing my research I came across videos and research articles (Cornell University) that recommend a larger size trap. The videos and university research recommend using a trap with about 40 liters of volume. I measured one of my 5 frame Nucs and it is 1387 cubic inches or 22.73 liters. That would be about half the size recommended. Size wise, a 10 frame deep is Goldie Locks Just Right. But that could get very heavy, very awkward, very fast. It would also require a much larger commitment of resources to each trap. 10 frames vs. 5 frames. The commercial traps listed in the catalogs can't be anywhere near 40 liters. I'm looking to put out several traps this next month. A commercial beek in the area is allowing me to place traps near his yards. I'm hoping to catch several swarms this way. I'm just looking for the best size vs. resources and safety. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Bill

[Finski]

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According professional trappers in USA best size is 40 litre, equal langstroth box.
It takes in 2 kg swarm.

If you use smaller traps, you will miss best swarms.

[FRAMEshift]

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,32318.0.html

[wisnewbee]

Thanks Frameshift and Finski,
I did a search of past postings and already found that information. I'm just concerned about handling larger traps while up a ladder. I already have the lemongrass and spearmint essential oils. I'm planning on making the queen lure that Michael Bush talks about. The local commercial beek said I could have the pinched queens when he requeens.

Bill

[sterling]

I had a swarm on one of my traps last week they didn't stay with it. Don't know why. Maybe it was to small for the swarm. The trap was a standard five frame deep nuc with top bars. The swarm was pretty big. They left me a small comb attached to the outside of the stand under the trap. :-D I made several this winter and now I wish I had made them bigger. :(

[wisnewbee]

Instead of 5 frame Nucs with about 22 liters of volume, or 10 frame deeps "Nucs", would a decent compromise be to enlarge the DCoates design to an 8 frame unit? This would give me about 32.23 liters of volume. Larger then a 5 frame, buy still small enough to wrangle up a tree. That way I wouldn't have to worry about stacking units on top of each other. My luck, they would come apart and I would drop them.  :shock: Thanks for the great suggestions so far.

Bill

[Kathyp]

first thing is that i wouldn't wrangle a box up into a tree  :-D  if you are going to do it, secure it with a rope and hang it so that you can lower it without climbing up a ladder.

in my area, spring swarms can be pretty big.  at least 3 pounds and often bigger.  you need a trap that will accommodate the size.  it's not about you, it's about the bees.  there is nothing wrong with putting some frames in a cardboard box unless it's raining.  if you can get some waxed produce boxes, they work well. they are considerably lighter than a deep.   you can transfer the frames into a deep easily. the bees will use almost anything if it attracts them.  

in one of the videos that JP posted from Bud3, you can see a trap that he had up a tree.  you might want to look at that.  it's the one that Ziffabeek took down.

[Finski]

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I am going to make trap hives from hay straw. They are light to lift to tree.
Board material hives are really heavy and bees do not like their odor.

[gardeningfireman]

I am going to use a few different sizes this year. I have a double 5-frame deep nuc, a lang. medium, and three 5-frame nucs. Plus, I put out a single deep lang. hive and a couple of TBH's, all baited with used frames/topbars and lemongrass oil. I will post if and when I get any swarms!

[Finski]

I am going to use a few different sizes this year. I have a double 5-frame deep nuc, a lang. medium, and three 5-frame nucs. Plus, I put out a single deep lang. hive and a couple of TBH's, all baited with used frames/topbars and lemongrass oil. I will post if and when I get any swarms!

This has been researched how these works.

[Finski]

.

I don't remember is it handled here.

* Good size is 40 litre size of Langstroth box
* Dark color
* In lower part of box 3 cm entrance.
* The site from ground 5 m
Visible plase but not where sun burns it

Lures are several
Foundations do not work.

These advices are from USA. Professional install baithives to reduce the amount of africanized colonies.'
.

[iddee]

It sounds as if you want someone to tell you that you can use too small a box. It just doesn't work that way. If you want all small swarms, use nucs. If you want large swarms along with the smaller ones, use hive bodies. As kathy said, never heft a hive into a tree. Put a rope over a limb and pull the hive up. Then retrieve it the same way, by lowering it with the rope.

[hardwood]

I agree with the above. Although I have been lucky I guess and caught swarms in a five frame deep nuc, something with a larger volume seems better. I always have several ten frame deep hives set up with LGO infused bees wax as a lure in all of my yards. Bud builds his out of coroplast (plastic cardboard...black) about 1'x1'x2' or so with a hole on the bottom. Maybe he'll give you his special recipe if you ask. He catches a ton of swarms!

Hang them by ropes. If they swing too much tie a tail line onto them and secure that too or hoist them closer to the branch.

I'm not as good a swarm trapper as I am a swarm shaker :)

Scott

[Michael Bush]

The optimal space to attract a swarm is about the size of a ten frame deep (or two eight frame mediums).   But I've had good luck with the volume of a five frame deep or an eight frame medium when using swarm lure.

[wisnewbee]

Thank you all for your input. I value your opinions, and your knowledge. That's why I asked the question. The research and "experts" do recommend about a 10 deep size as the preferred size. I was just trying to see if people were having good results using something other than the optimal size. As far as using a rope to hang the trap in the tree, I figured the bees would reject it if it was swinging on a rope. I learned something, and that's the reason we post questions. My dilemma was a size and resources vs. quantity of traps. Boils down to, if the bees don't like it, (the trap is too small) it won't matter how many you have out there. Thank you again for your input.

Bill

[T Beek]

After downsizing to all mediums I began using my deeps with permanent bottoms for catching/keeping/transferring swarms, albeit I've only 'caught' one using them so far.  Most of the swarms I've gotten came from nearby trees, but then I transfer it to one of my readymade deep swarmboxes.  I'll be hanging them on tree stands next week if it doesn't snow ;)

thomas

[Grandma_DOG]

I made 2 videos on swarm traps (Below) and I've got a book coming out on swarm trapping by summer.

Beekeeping 101 - Swarm Traps and Bait Hives


How to build a Bait Hive / Swarm Trap and get Free Bees

[T Beek]

Caught your vids some time back, thanks Grandma_DOG.  I've had as much luck capturing swarms using your design/instructions as my own unfortunately.  I guess everything depends on having the right box available to a swarm at the right time :) Thanks again.

thomas

[Brian D. Bray]

you can grow a nuc in a 5 frame medium nuc but you can't catch a swarm in one.  Minimum size of a bait hive is a 5 frame deep or double medium nuc.

[Michael Bush]

I run all mediums and if I'm using a five frame nuc it's an old deep I still have around and I put mediums in it...

[Finski]

.
An odd formula - big swarms and small bait hives!

When i started beekeeping with byed swarms, I joined them. 4 kg was the optimum size to begin. It occupied 2 langstroth boxes. It needed often 3 swarms together.

Modern bee stocks have often 3-5 kg swarms. What you do then when you get only tiny swarms?

If swarm feels the hive too tight, it continues its way next day..

[Apis_M_Rescue]

WisNewBee, You can use tossed out light weight Jenny Craig coolers. I have been having luck catching 2-3 pound swarms in them as they're bout the size of a deep nuc. I converted them to top bars w/ waxed comb guides as it adds the bees wax smell they love & usually helps make accessible straight comb(so far so good). I hang them up in trees when time or just leave on flat roofs w/ bricks on top.

April Scouts Choose Hive for Swarming Colony

I usually cut em out into 10 frame medium or deep after a month but waited longer on this one pictures below:

Jenny Craig Swarm Lure Cut Out Transfer

Good luck on your swarm catches & if time Thomas Seeley has some info bout the subject of swarm lures in his book at libraries "Honeybee Democracy" Here is a link to some of his video's on NPR Science Fridays:

Bee Swarm Videos on Science Fridays Feat. Thomas Seeley