5 frame nucs

[Cindi]

Last time I was at my course instructor's farm to spend a little time in a "bringing the bees out winter seminar", I asked him if he was going to bring in a swack of packages bees from Australia, like he does each year.  He was hesitant, and said that he was not going to import any this year.  He was going to work with his own stock and create nucs.  He said they are superior to package bees and would be less expensive because they are locally grown.

BeeC was at the seminar too.  Our instructor asked us both how many nucs we would like him to make up for us, and would we want 3 or 5 frame nucs.  He told us that the 5 frame nucs were much better (of course).  So I told him I would like four, 5-frame nucs --- and I believe that Steve wanted 4 nucs as well.

Our instructor said that he would be working on them soon and figured that by the middle of March they would be ready for us.  That is good.  When he imports the package bees from Australia, they are not available until the second or third week of April.  so having the bees almost a month earlier will give an enormous edge on the season.

I do not know what he will be charging us for the nucs, but I know that he is not out in his life to make an enormous profit.  Of course he would have to charge something for his time, I expect that.

I know that his colonies are clean, he takes the best care of his bees imaginable and I trust his source.  So, I will have work to do with my two little weak colonies, helping them out with extra bees.

Finsky has said over and over to give weak colonies help by taking emerging brood from big hives.  I do not have big hives. But I know that the nucs will grow quickly and maybe I will be able to take some frames from them in some short time.

I got home early from the Bee course today because I did not want to go to the buffet reception dinner.  I have a bee club meeting tonight and that was more important, to spend time with some old buddies in our club.  Besides, something interesting is happening there at the bee club meeting tonight.  I think it has something to do with one of the members doing a workshop on how to build his style of pollen traps.  We'll see.  Awesome day of days.  Cindi

[BEE C]

Cindi,
Unfortunately I have to work tonight until midnight. :'(  I can't wait for those nucs.  It will be great to get some of rons bees.

 I bought some REALLY good essential oils today before work, and have printed off a bunch of information of studies on wintergreen oil, lemongrass oil, and menthol oils.  I want to match the effect of HBH without spending so much.  The oils are very pure and really not that much at all compared to the dilluted oils I have seen elsewhere.  I think I got way too much oil actually.  If you want some  :-D
I have read that Honey b health uses lecitathin to emulsify the oil as sugar syrup doesn't effectively allow emulsification of the oils.  Do you have info on lecitathin LD 50, or recipes by chance? Still researching but, haven't found info on how to best emulsify the oils.
Also read that lemongrass oil is a feeding stimulant and similar to bee pheremones.  LD 50 seems within a range I feel comfortable working with.  I am only going to fumigate or add to syrup, no grease patties or paper strips on the top of the bars.  Not really looking to use the oils to kill mites, ill stick to formic and oxalic for that, but want to add the oils to keep syrup clean, and I think it can't hurt within certain limits, and what Ive read so far indicates these oils as a good part of integrated pest management.  I can't remember, have you used these before?  Whats your opinion on these?
i know one con mentioned is that they can make mites hide out in large numbers in drone cells.  So I was thinking that drone comb would be good to use in conjunction with fumigating with oils? 
March is coming soon, can't wait for the nucs.  Did ron mention what they would be in? Cardboard nuc boxes? Want to know so I can maby build some divider walls for my langs that I have if they are coming in temporary boxes... :-D :-D :-D :-D

[Michael Bush]

>haven't found info on how to best emulsify the oils.

I've had the best luck using honey to emulsify the oils.  Put them in the honey, and mix them in well.  Wait a week or so.

[Finsky]

:-D :-D :-D :-D

You have too few hives because you want to tease you existing hives so much. To keep surup pure? - Give syrup in such mounts that it has no time to spoil.

[Cindi]

:-D :-D :-D :-D

You have too few hives because you want to tease you existing hives so much. To keep surup pure? - Give syrup in such mounts that it has no time to spoil.

This is very valuable and good information.  Why give so much syrup to the bees that it would turn mouldy or bad.  Besides, if the syrup is getting mouldy, you can bet your bottom dollar that it is getting quite cold for the bees to drink.  I would think if the bees were given smaller amounts, (of course consuming it fast), that the syrup would stay maybe a little bit warmer than a large amount that sits around getting mouldy and cold.  We know that bees prefer warm drink, including water.  Why give them so much that it moulds?  That makes no sense.  Greatest of days.  Cindi

[Cindi]

Steve,

"Also read that lemongrass oil is a feeding stimulant and similar to bee pheremones.  LD 50 seems within a range I feel comfortable working with.  I am only going to fumigate or add to syrup, no grease patties or paper strips on the top of the bars.  Not really looking to use the oils to kill mites, ill stick to formic and oxalic for that, but want to add the oils to keep syrup clean, and I think it can't hurt within certain limits, and what Ive read so far indicates these oils as a good part of integrated pest management.  I can't remember, have you used these before?  Whats your opinion on these?
i know one con mentioned is that they can make mites hide out in large numbers in drone cells.  So I was thinking that drone comb would be good to use in conjunction with fumigating with oils? 
March is coming soon, can't wait for the nucs.  Did ron mention what they would be in? Cardboard nuc boxes? Want to know so I can maby build some divider walls for my langs that I have if they are coming in temporary boxes... "

I know nothing of essential oils, I cannot speak to this.  I e-mailed Ron again to see when the nucs would be ready, no answer, must be busy getting ready for pollination.  No clue about how the nucs will arrive.  I suspect that we will ahve to go down there with our own boxes and he will put the nuc frames in them?  Haven't purchased nucs before, so I have no clue.  Best of the best day.  Cindi

[Finsky]

.
My experience is that bees does not want to take cold syrup from top feeder. And then there is hole in upstairs and valuable heat escapes from brood area.

What I do in spring:

* I even food frames of hives.  I move capped combs, because some need more room for brood and some has too small food store.
* in bad case, I pour 60% syrup into combs and I give 10 pound sugar at one time. Bees are forced to take it.

Continuous syrup feeding does not help brooding in spring.
It is only pollen which accelerate brooding.
To take care warm economy in the hive is very important.

I have gived tens of times honey or sugar feeding in spring, and results to add brooding are meaningless.


If hive is small, about 5 occupied frames, spring build upp is usually painfull. If hive have had nosema, it is more painfull. Nosema is very common even if beekeepers do not admit it.

.

.

[BEE C]

Re essential oil,

You have too few hives because you want to tease you existing hives so much. To keep surup pure? - Give syrup in such mounts that it has no time to spoil.

For SPRING FEEDING, I will be "stimulating" with quart entrance feeders with about one litre per hive per week.  I'm a few weeks away from that.  For WINTER FEEDING I do use a hive top feeder and feed as much as they will take.   I was told by my instructor that feeding is stressful so to get it done as quickly as possible.  Last fall it took maby two weeks before they were full of stores.  I had no visable mould in syrup, but that doesn't mean there weren't yeasts. So no mould last fall but I will definitely add essential oils to prevent it, not to prolong feeding.  Ive read that honey b health or other feed additives containing essential oils are excellent suppliments to add, contributing to less nosema, and boosting honeybee health. 
P.S thanks for the honey b health recipe michael and understudy.  Emulsifying with lecithin should do the trick as I don't want to feed honey back to them.  I was also told that lecithin prevents abnormal cell division.  That can't hurt.

[Michael Bush]

>Continuous syrup feeding does not help brooding in spring.
It is only pollen which accelerate brooding.

As long as they have stores, I agree.

[Understudy]

>Continuous syrup feeding does not help brooding in spring.
It is only pollen which accelerate brooding.

As long as they have stores, I agree.

I assume as general rule then that sugar water to help encourage comb building and pollen patties for brood? Assuming this is under the right circumstances.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[Cindi]

Steve, are you talking about the "Boardman" type entrance feeders.  Define what you mean so I can understand what you anticipate using.  I would not advise any kind of outside feeders.  When you feed 1:1 s.s. for spring build up, use the inner frame or hive top feeders, as you have used before.  The outside entrance feeders are asking for a robbing situation to occur, no matter how careful you are about things.  I believe that and stand by that rule.  No. 

If you do not have the plastic inner feeders, I have extras, you are more than welcome to use mine.  I will show you the precautions to take so that there is no drowning bees.  Best of the best days.  Cindi

[BEE C]

Last year I feed sugar syrup in spring using frame feeders like you cindy.  Because I had packages I fed continually until they had comb built up and the late spring flow was on.  This year I am only using one quarter litre feeders to stimulate a bit.  Ron said to wait a few weeks as my hives don't need to be ready for pollinating.  So much less feed, as they have lots of stores.  So a litre a week versus five litres.  The feeders I bought from ron, they are like a jar type feeder ony with a little mesh over the feeding tray.  The feeding tray part fits into the hive, so they shouldn't cause robbing as there is no exposed sugar syrup.  I used them last year when I took out the frame feeders for a bit and they didn't cause robbing.  Heres what they look like.

[Cindi]

Steve, OK we need to talk, I believe that you  know lots that I don't know about.  I have not seen this apparatus what you are feeding your colonies with.  1/4 litre?  I do agree.  If you have stores, why stimulate feeding.  There may be comments coming from our forum.

Even after two years of beekeeping, learning and listening,  I still wish for more experience than what I can provide for myself.

Steve, you are not a commerical pollinator, your bees will pollinate your own crops certainly, so you do not need to build up for the "pollination" that our mentors(s) must engage in.  You probably are not at this point, but may be many years from now. When you do get there, you will have much knowledge at your fingertips, but you cannot hurry time and experience, nor can I.  We are learning.  Best of the great days that I know will be comin'.  Cindi

[tig]

why not ask your instructor to sell you brood frames with bees to strenghten your weak colonies? 4 sealed brood frames with adherring bees will do wonders almost instantly.