Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: dprater on October 22, 2013, 07:01:50 am
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What makes me ask this is I went to a guys house to inspect his bees yesterday. He got them last spring and has read little and know little about bees. I went in his hive last May he has not been in them again till yesterday. Needless to say everything was glued together real bad.
But the hive was perfect, good stores, saw the Q, brood, egg and lots of bees.
I have had all kinds of issues with my 6 hives this year so what the hick, should we just stop going in to inspect? I told him he was just lucky this year and needs to keep a eye on them, but I have to say his hive looked good.
dan
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Inspections are necessary. If you want to learn about bees, you must open the hive that you ser what is happening there. just see
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One must decide to become a BeeKEEPER or a BeeHAVER. Sounds like your friend is a HAVER.
That all said; Bees have been doing their thing without our assistance for well over 60 million years.....I think they know what they're doing.
Unfortunately for bees they have no control over what we are capable of doing (done?) to them.
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Dan I have resisted the urge to be in my colonies frequently this year. I felt like my constant intervention set them back enormously. Unless I have a specific reason, I have let them be. They seem better for it. I watch the entrance, check the bottom pan and occasionally just pop the top. You can gain a lot of information just by looking.
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Yes, I know those "do nothing guys".
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Yes, I know those "do nothing guys".
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Finski.. I didn't say that I do nothing. I was saying that I reduced the frequency of my brood nest inspections to about 4 times per year. Spring, pre-flow, post-flow and pre-winter. Any thing else is supering or checking stores.
Most other information can be gathered externally.
At least that works for me, so far.
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Yes, I know those "do nothing guys".
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Finski.. I didn't say that I do nothing. I was saying that I reduced the frequency of my brood nest inspections to about 4 times per year. Spring, pre-flow, post-flow and pre-winter. Any thing else is supering or checking stores.
Most other information can be gathered externally.
At least that works for me, so far.
about 4 times per year is almost nothing
It depends on summer, what works for me. If weathers are bad, bees tend to swarm
If summer is good, take several times honey off and extract.
If you do not inspect your hives, what ever can happen
During swarming season inspection is needed every week, do they are going to swarm...
Why 10 days interwall is not enough.... because the last days may be rainy and you cannot open the hives
My inspections
- winter shelter off and shovel snow off that bees can make cleansing flight
- theft the hive, do it has food enough. If not, open the cover an do you see capped food. If not feed the hive.
- Is the queen present and does it make normal worker brood.
- Closer looking, amount of food (warm weathers)
- The colony size. Hives have met losses. Cluster are smaller than in autumn. Do they need joining?
Do they need less room, dummy board of mire frames to nuc.
- In May when brooding is going well: diseases, is the brooding normal (nosema problem) is the brooding as good as it ought be . Best hives to brood (breeding material)
- Condition of frames: too old off, moulded, mouse beaten, too much winter food, too less winter food
- When dandelion and apple trees are in bloom: need of new boxes
- Need of first supers for honey
- Swarming control every week
- More room: colony exploses and at same time first sings ow swarming
- making false swarms
- giving more super and following honey amount
- Amount of brood: how fast that colony is going to expand
- Making hives ready to move out pastures....how to collect a productive unit
- honey coming in, need of new supers,
- swarming intentions; heavy nectar flow may start the swarming
and so on....Trouble makes need more inspections
Others
- cutting drone cells off
- change the queen
- moving honey frames to supers
- give foundations to draw
- take brood to nucs
- give a new queen and after inspect that it lays well
- take all honey off for winter feeding
- collect brood frames to lowest box.
- arrange the wintering frames so that pollen frames do not get mould
- make hives ready to collect home yard
- feed the colonies
- weigh the hives with balance
- put them ready for winter
- change the last queens
- join last mating nuc bees
- join nucs so that they are big enough for winter
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Mating nucs...
- rear first gang of new queens
- put mating nucs ready
- move them to outer yards
and so on...
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about 4 times per year is almost nothing
It depends on summer, what works for me. If weathers are bad, bees tend to swarm
If summer is good, take several times honey off and extract.
If you do not inspect your hives, what ever can happen
During swarming season inspection is needed every week, do they are going to swarm...
Why 10 days interwall is not enough.... because the last days may be rainy and you cannot open the hives
Finski, Different terminology looks like what we have here.
My inspections
- winter shelter off and shovel snow off that bees can make cleansing flight--It doesn't snow here.
- theft the hive, do it has food enough. If not, open the cover an do you see capped food. If not feed the hive.--One of my external inspections I tip the back of my hives using a fish scale to estimate stores. I base my estimations on the weight measurements I record going into winter.
- Is the queen present and does it make normal worker brood.--Spring brood nest inspection.
- Closer looking, amount of food (warm weathers)--I weigh them often. Again external.
- The colony size. Hives have met losses. Cluster are smaller than in autumn. Do they need joining?
Do they need less room, dummy board of mire frames to nuc.--Part of Spring brood nest inspection.
- In May when brooding is going well: diseases, is the brooding normal (nosema problem) is the brooding as good as it ought be . Best hives to brood (breeding material)--Pre-flow brood nest inspection.
- Condition of frames: too old off, moulded, mouse beaten, too much winter food, too less winter food--Spring brood nest inspection.
- When dandelion and apple trees are in bloom: need of new boxes--I just pop the top and look between the frames. I can see if they are capped.
- Need of first supers for honey--Same as above.
- Swarming control every week- More room: colony exploses and at same time first sings ow swarming- making false swarms--I'm planning to implement Michael Bushes brood nest opening and Walter Wrights nectar management systems this spring.
- giving more super and following honey amount--Again supering. Pop the top evaluate add or not.
- Amount of brood: how fast that colony is going to expand--Spring and Pre-flow.
- Making hives ready to move out pastures....how to collect a productive unit--I don't move my colonies unless I make splits.
- honey coming in, need of new supers,--Supering.
- swarming intentions; heavy nectar flow may start the swarming--I will tip the hives at the boxes and look for swarm cells.
and so on....Trouble makes need more inspections
Others
- cutting drone cells off
- change the queen
- moving honey frames to supers
- give foundations to draw
- take brood to nucs
- give a new queen and after inspect that it lays well
- take all honey off for winter feeding
- collect brood frames to lowest box.
- arrange the wintering frames so that pollen frames do not get mould
- make hives ready to collect home yard
- feed the colonies
- weigh the hives with balance
- put them ready for winter
- change the last queens
- join last mating nuc bees
- join nucs so that they are big enough for winter
.
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Mating nucs...
- rear first gang of new queens
- put mating nucs ready
- move them to outer yards
and so on...
I could go on but it would be pointless. Like I said, I reduced my frame by frame brood nest inspections to 4 unless there are problems noted. I don't want to just requeen every year. I let the bees figure out if the queen needs to be superseded. I want to make fall splits.
Finski, I don't have the years of experience that you have. You have worked out a system that works for you. I plan to do the same thing. I weigh the advice of experienced beekeepers like yourself and adapt it to my location and priorities.
Again thank you for your insights.
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Actually it is a list what you should do, or not to do.
Should I keep record about those?
Or it is better to record the weather.
Guys often run to computer and ask from internet what to do. It would reviele out if you look inside the hive what the hive needs.
30 years ago inpection was not nice. Black bees remembered 3 days who has touched it hive.
Now I can inspect the hive 3 times a day and bees do not mind.
This spring I had a hive, which had very bad nosema. I took a queen away at the end of May and let the 2 frames of bees to die.
In late September I needed a hive stand and I throw away the hive. Wow ! Bees emerged from entrance!
There was 4 frame colony inside- The queen was small and it prioves that it is emergency queen, but was it however a small swarm?
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I also think you can over do inspection too, but I know that had I not checked my hives last spring I would have lost more hives that I did. Three times I had to give hives a frame with eggs and they raised a Q. I was just shocked at how well his bees did by themselves.
And after all I am fascinated with the way bees live and work the hive as a hole unit. Learning about bees is the best part of beekeeping to me. I love telling people about bees and people ask questions that I can usually answer :-D, if not I try to find out.
dan
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you can bee a beekeeper and not go nto the hive all the time. You can see a lot of whats goin on in the hive by watching the front porch traffic. If you see something that isnt right by all means check it out. You can check for swarm cells without going into the hive. I limit my inpsections to 3 times a year unless somthing dont look right.
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I limit my inpsections to 3 times a year unless somthing dont look right.
And how much you get honey per hive with that system?
But what is wrong in looking inside the hive? If you have 500 hives, it is work. If you have 15 hives, you do what you like.
There is no rules how often you open the inner cover. At least forget them,
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you can bee a beekeeper and not go nto the hive all the time. Youcan ea a lot ofwhats goin on in the hive by watching te front porch traffic. If yo see something that isnt right by all means check it out. You can check for swarm cells without going into the hive. I limit my inpsections to 3 times a year unless somthing dont look right.
I suspect those checking inside their hives just 3-4 times a year don't mind loosing bees to swarms and other detrimental factors that affect bees. After all, how would such a beekeeper even know that their colony was weak, getting ready to swarm, was starving...etc....?
How does one go about checking for swarm cells without going into the hive? I'd like to learn that technique. Please tell us.
While I 'might' agree that much info can be determined by simply watching entrances, there is no way to know anything for sure without looking inside.
X-RAY perhaps?
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Hey TBeek, does separating the bodies and tipping them up on edge while looking up thru the frames suffice for finding swarm cells? This method of inspection for swarm intention is what was recommended as a least invasive means. You have to remember that I'm more or less self taught. It's my understanding that a frame by frame colony inspection will set back colony development by at least a couple of days. Swarm build-up time is also the time that the colony is building population for the start of the spring flow. If my methods are not satisfactory I'd rather know now.
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Tipping boxes up will only show those cells hanging from the bottom, supercedure swarm cells are generally built in the middle of frames so.....yes and no is the answer to your question :-D. You just have to look, no way around it. It gets easier every time. Don't forget to keep breathing ;) Actually an old friend likes to tell the story of how he passed out right in front of his hives during his first inspection........forgot to breath :laugh:
I am also mostly self-taught (teaching others about bees is the best method I've found for educating myself).... I began with a Big commercial company in the mid 70's and by the time I wanted my own bees I had to forget all the bad habits those folks had taught me and I am still re-learning. I've got a friend BEEK in Canada with well over 50 years experience that I sometimes talk to, but haven't seen in many years.
And then there is this place which can be very helpful once you get passed all the EGOs :-D
As for setting development back due to inspections, I'm not so sure about that. Its not something I've ever noticed. I DO KNOW that excessive smoking can cause problems for days later. Less is more when it comes to smoking hives, a couple short puffs at the entrance and maybe 1 or 2 inside is all I generally need to occupy my bees while I do my thing. Only recieved one sting in anger last season. The longer I work with bees the less stings I get....that is a bonus for sure, although my arthritis misses those stings I used to get :laugh:
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(riverrat)<You can check for swarm cells without going into the hive.>
I've only been at this a few months, but how can you do that?
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It's not that I have problems performing inspections it's just that I'm striving for best methods that balance time, effectiveness and impact. In other words, my goal is to learn beekeeping methods that are the most helpful to the bees, are the most effective in meeting those needs and have the least negative impact on the colonies. All of this while limiting the time spent performing these manipulations so that I can care for the maximum number of colonies effectively.
Wow, that was a mouthful. I hope I've communicated my goals clearly. Sooner or later I'll get it figured out.
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The average hive inspection shouldn't take much more than 10-15 minutes. If inspecting only a few times a year, expect to be inside longer as there will be MUCH more to do.
So it goes................... 8-) You will find your own way of caring for your bees.
:laugh: I know some BEEKS with decades under their belts who are still trying to figure things out. IMO that is the essence of this adventure called beekeeping. The constant, persistent and never-ending day to day learning...............My own personal goal is that this learning NEVER stops........I'll never know enough about beekeeping or the World and will go to my grave wishing to learn even more :)
Unfortunately for bees and beeks alike we have some among us who have stopped learning and will tell us at every opportunity that they have nothing to learn because they already know all there is to know :roll:. Watch those folks closely and take their advise with a block of salt :-D.
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This summer i found out that One Queen layed tio sporous brood areai sid not ser diseases and colony was busy
Then I were changing my last Queens from mating nucs and I noticed that right front leg was hook. I did not worked.
when you set the Queen, bees are able TO sting poison TO antenna or leg through the medhåll.
the is no a another way TO find out these than open brood hive.
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3 times a year I will go through the hive top to bottom. Unless I see a problem on the landing board. If you study bees and learn you will see signs of problems that may be in the hive. I do a mite check ones a year with a stickboard. AS for loosing swarms I probly loose no more than someone gong throught he hive all the time. All you have to do is tilt the bottom of the boxes to see between them to look for swarm cells. heft the hives everyonce in awhile to see if they are maintaining or gaining weight. I dont just show up 3 times a year I go out weekly and look things over watch whats going on. may even raise the inner cover up to look whats going on. The less invasive you are the better for the bees. Dont need an xray. Just knowlege of how a bee hive operates and be observative. Look at a beehive as your house. guest every once in awhile is great but someone over weekly disterbing the house gets to be a nuasance. :)
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I look at my hives every day that I'm home, in fact....I'm looking at them now roughly 100' from our front door. I do simple routine inspections about every 10 days to 2 weeks, only going to the very bottom if there is a question to be answered. Generally I only go to the very bottom ONCE per year during early Spring. I do sticky boards to monitor mites all summer, perhaps 4-5 times per colony. I haven't any mite issues ever. I have mites but my bees handle them as I don't treat with anything other than syrup feeding as needed and my colonies are 95% foundationless, with comb cycled out after 4-5 seasons.....but I still look ;)
In a weeks time away from the beeyard much can happen. Simply tipping boxes only exposes the bottom and any Q cells located there. However; It tells us nothing about laying patterns, pollen stores, congestion, whether there are eggs/brood or supercedure/after cells (which appear in the middle of frames).
All of which require looking. Our failure to notice some of these issues because we simply don't bother to look can spell the end for a colony of bees IMO. Then when our bees die we blame CCD or some other problem outside of own reach instead of accepting our responsibility for keeping these wonderful creatures ALIVE.
Like I said earlier in the thread, we will always have BeeKEEPERS and BeeHAVERS. The choice is always ours to make and most BEEKS know the difference. That doesn't make one opinion or method any better or worse than any another. It is what it is..............Both groups are trying to help bees, no?
Our 'common' goal; to assure our honeybees survival and well-being is what brings us all together, right?
And Heck, I sure don't mind those minimalist BEEKS providing the World with swarms every year :-D
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The beekeeping skills will arouse so that you learn the natural hive cycle and you learn to foresee, what bees are going to do next.
- much old brood ... soon more room
- blooming gap and strong hives.... soon they will have swarm cells
- not clipping queen wings.... soon the swarms are on tree tops...
- swarm escapes .. no more honey this summer from that hive and the whole year's work for vain.
- if this pasture does not give honey, put the hive on sedan carry and drive it to better pastures
Last summer I got average yield 200 lbs/hive. It really needs work. It is not only inspecting procedure.
Yield period is short here. If you do not act then, you will loose the whole years work.
My experience is that if you open the hive 3 times in a year, you get honey not at all.
It is very sure.
Honey does not flow from heaven like in Bible
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Tbeek and Finski thanks for the warm welcome I am not sure how I have produced over a ton of honey a year not checking my hive everyday :th_thumbsupup:
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I have produced over a ton of honey a year not checking my hive everyday :th_thumbsupup:
You just said that 3 times a year. If you say so.
Listen wise man. I have lived in capital city and worked there normally. I have my hives on summer cottage 100 miles away. It takes 2.00 hours to drive that distance
I have not either checked my hives every day.
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You can see a lot of whats goin on in the hive by watching the front porch traffic.
Of course not. And with my 51 years experience that is mere imagination.
Traffic varies lots during same day. So it depends, when you visit on each hives.
I know very much about these things. I have watched bee traffic enough.
To me traffic tells first of all, how local pastures work compared to another site.
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You can see a lot of whats goin on in the hive by watching the front porch traffic.
Of course not. And with my 51 years experience that is mere imagination.
Traffic varies lots during same day. So it depends, when you visit on each hives.
I know very much about these things. I have watched bee traffic enough.
To me traffic tells first of all, how local pastures work compared to another site.
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Things I look for on the front porch:
Activity-directly proportional to colony strength, also indication of nectar flow, pollen being collected.
Health-active healthy bees, dead brood being hauled out and so on, bad smell, DWV
Flow Period- Same as above, bearding? Over crowded need ventilation?
Watching orientation flights-direct indication of brood rearing and colony strength.
Sounds-Happy hum, queensless roar
Aggression-being robbed, queenless, somethings changed, something is aggravating them.
Are these observations not valid?
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Things I look for on the front porch:
Activity-directly proportional to colony strength, also indication of nectar flow, pollen being collected.
Health-active healthy bees, dead brood being hauled out and so on, bad smell, DWV
Flow Period- Same as above, bearding? Over crowded need ventilation?
Watching orientation flights-direct indication of brood rearing and colony strength.
Sounds-Happy hum, queensless roar
Aggression-being robbed, queenless, somethings changed, something is aggravating them.
Are these observations not valid?
You must be hionest to yourself. That way you achieve things.
To be a beekeeper, you must find out, what is imagination and what is truth.
Beekeepers tend to see things which never happened. (Happy Hum!)
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<Beekeepers tend to see things which never happened. (Happy Hum!)>
All right, all right, I could have used a more descriptive choice of words. I was trying to use words that were "G" rated. :-D Well, this is what I have noticed. The noise that a colony makes when it is agitated is some what harsher than when it is calm. Queenlessness is just another form of agitation. Bees don't like being without a queen kind of like when you smoke them to much. I know that you have to have noticed this difference in your years of beekeeping. I know others on this forum have.
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I know that you have to have noticed this difference in your years of beekeeping. I know others on this forum have.
IDifficult to what has happened to my skills in my years. But I remember my average honey yields which tells about skills.
40 years ago .....40 kg/hive
50 kg/hive
60 kg per hive
Now narmal yield 60-80 kg yield
90kg is not rare
the best 130 kg in year 1994
But hives 200 kg/hive. 20 years ago I could not even dream about that size yield what I get now.
And what is the biggest difference?
25 y ago I kept hives 10 hives in one punch. Then I noticed that if they are in different places, I get information about quality of different pasture areas. Then it become a main point in my learning, because I allready knew, how to rear big hives.
Now I keep 1-3 hives in one point. I take care that main pastures are inside 1 km radius. I move my hives if needed flying is not good. Differences are amazing even if the hives are one mile apart.
OK, somebody get sick that fooling, but what about Golf playing? 4 hours walk on lawn doing what, - nothing?
I play my golf with hives 150 kg honey into entrance hole! (Not one in hole....)
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What is learning
When I learn new things, it is like onion.
I notice first layer. I think it through and then I am ready to make new observations.
Layer after layer.
What is the value of observations? It is like a tool box. You use some tools and and you do not use some.
Who knows what is important. It will be revieled after years.
The most important observation, when I start with car to my hives is that I do not collide my car when I leave my home yard. Sometimes it has been near.
Next orservation: are my tools with me: smoker, bee hat, knife, .....extra boxes...
firetools, smoke stuff...water bottle is usefull...gasoline in tank...
Humming bees...it does not matter, do they hum or not. I cannot help them.
.yeah, old age does not arrive alone...
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Finski, My friend, I don't discount your ability to keep bees. All that I'm saying is that observations on the outside of the hive can give you some indication as to what is going on inside the hive. That's all. I know that once you see something that looks different, the only way to really know is to perform an inspection.
I remember something that you once posted about finding a queen. "In a large colony it is difficult to find a queen. One method is to split the colony in half. The split portion that has the queen will have bees fanning at the entrance. The other will not." This is from memory so forgive me if the quote is not work for word. I do try to pay attention. I'll search for the post.
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Finski, My friend, I don't discount your ability to keep bees.
Cool!
That is exactly what I need.
God bless America!!!
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What is learning
When I learn new things, it is like onion.
I notice first layer. I think it through and then I am ready to make new observations.
Layer after layer.
What is the value of observations? It is like a tool box. You use some tools and and you do not use some.
Who knows what is important. It will be revieled after years.
The most important observation, when I start with car to my hives is that I do not collide my car when I leave my home yard. Sometimes it has been near.
Next orservation: are my tools with me: smoker, bee hat, knife, .....extra boxes...
firetools, smoke stuff...water bottle is usefull...gasoline in tank...
Humming bees...it does not matter, do they hum or not. I cannot help them.
.yeah, old age does not arrive alone...
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Ok, I understand now. I have a saying "Getting old ain't for sissies, You got to be tough to get old."
I'm not that far behind you.
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Finski, My friend, I don't discount your ability to keep bees.
Cool!
That is exactly what I need.
God bless America!!!
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Finski, your a hoot. :-D
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I remember something that you once posted about finding a queen. "In a large colony it is difficult to find a queen. One method is to split the colony in half. The split portion that has the queen will have bees fanning at the entrance.
During 50 years I have used it couple of times. I have in my tool box 15 tricks how to find a queen.
But I am very skillfull to find it with mere eyes. If I do not find it this time, I wait that it emerge into my sight in some another inspecting.
But that method is especially to mad hives which not not let make a normal inspection.
Those which attack first on the smoker.
I enjoys to use different methods to different hives. I do not make to myself stupid rules. It is not fun at all " 3 times is enough".
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What makes me ask this is I went to a guys house to inspect his bees yesterday. He got them last spring and has read little and know little about bees. I went in his hive last May he has not been in them again till yesterday. Needless to say everything was glued together real bad.
But the hive was perfect, good stores, saw the Q, brood, egg and lots of bees.
I have had all kinds of issues with my 6 hives this year so what the hick, should we just stop going in to inspect? I told him he was just lucky this year and needs to keep a eye on them, but I have to say his hive looked good.
dan
Dan,
Sorry about all that. I my opinion to many frame by frame inspections cause problems. I believe there is a balance in everything we do. You have to weigh the help against the harm and choose wisely. Just my opinion.
Ray
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WOW!
It might be helpful if all readers and especially those who are posting a response actually read what they were commenting on.........you know who you are ;) Well maybe.... :-\
If we can't take the time to actually absorb another's thoughts 'in writing' on a forum w/out getting all worked up and offended there's little hope we could ever do so face to face, not a very promising future, heh?
There is a very good reason why we have 2 ears, 2 eyes and ONLY ONE MOUTH. Do I need to say what the reason is?
Zip em up Boys :-D Someone start another thread PLEASE!
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WOW!
There is a very good reason why we have 2 ears, 2 eyes and ONLY ONE MOUTH. Do I need to say what the reason is?
10 fingers!!!
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WOW!
It might be helpful if all readers and especially those who are posting a response actually read what they were commenting on.........you know who you are ;) Well maybe.... :-\
If we can't take the time to actually absorb another's thoughts 'in writing' on a forum w/out getting all worked up and offended there's little hope we could ever do so face to face, not a very promising future, heh?
There is a very good reason why we have 2 ears, 2 eyes and ONLY ONE MOUTH. Do I need to say what the reason is?
Zip em up Boys :-D Someone start another thread PLEASE!
Morning.
<If we can't take the time to actually absorb another's thoughts 'in writing' on a forum w/out getting all worked up and offended there's little hope we could ever do so face to face, not a very promising future, heh?>
I didn't see anyone getting worked up. But, I really can't see Finski.
<There is a very good reason why we have 2 ears, 2 eyes and ONLY ONE MOUTH. Do I need to say what the reason is?>
LOL, :lau: Wait my mom told me that one.
<Zip em up Boys :-D Someone start another thread PLEASE!>
I wholeheartedly agree... :deadhorse:
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not a very promising future, heh?>
: Wait my mom told me that one.
What mom really said...
machine gun grandma (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYXJYQZ3FX0#)
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First, Finski. Great video. Very funny.
Second, <There is a very good reason why we have 2 ears, 2 eyes and ONLY ONE MOUTH. Do I need to say what the reason is?>
T Beek her saying was "Son, God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason..Your supposed to listen twice as much as you speak" that was usually accompanied by the whole, "Keep your mouth shut and appear a fool, Open you mouth and remove all doubt" lesson. I really miss hearing that, She never tired.
You ever heard this one in Finland, Finski?
I go to "Coffee House" now.
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No I have not. We do not talk too much.
If we speak, we speak only usefull things.
"Speaking is silver but silence is gold" is our top ten.
What you need to know about Americans
1) Hello speaking
2) Rubbish speaking
3) Jokes speaking
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10) Hard guy in selling and marketing
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about Finnish
1) We say nothing before a cup of coffee
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Note to self
It's nice to know that Finski and T Beek have the only correct methods of keeping bees
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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What makes me ask this is I went to a guys house to inspect his bees yesterday. He got them last spring and has read little and know little about bees. I went in his hive last May he has not been in them again till yesterday. Needless to say everything was glued together real bad.
But the hive was perfect, good stores, saw the Q, brood, egg and lots of bees.
I have had all kinds of issues with my 6 hives this year so what the hick, should we just stop going in to inspect? I told him he was just lucky this year and needs to keep a eye on them, but I have to say his hive looked good.
dan
dan,
his hive looks great, but it would have been even better if he had inspected it. Maybe he has it in a great area and the hive would have yielded a nice surplus for him if he had checked to see if he needed to put extra supers on. Maybe the hive started queen cells and swarmed - and he missed on some ready-made splits from this awesome queen that he had lucked on. No way to know unless he inspected.
He also may have opened the box and found a big mess of wax moth and SHB if the virgin failed to mate (they do fail about 30% of the time)
Bottom line is - inspections are necessary.
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Note to self
It's nice to know that Finski and T Beek have the only correct methods of keeping bees
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Aw C'mon Jim, you'll have to show me where I've ever said that............ :?. :) You haven't read my best stuff :'(
I believe there is no 'one correct method' for beekeeping (best procedures for specific regions is another story), this forum proves it over and over and over............ ;)
My methods have experienced several evolutions since 1974 and will likely....hopefully, continue until I'm dead.
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Inspect or not. Answer is very simple: you inpect when needed
I have known 30 years a lady near my cottage - 5 km away, And she nurse her 10 hives so that she add boxes, but not much do any real inspections, like queen cells, more room, extract anf give room. And no swarming control tasks. No queen breeding. Just swarming queens.
She lost most of the colonies every summer when 2 swarms went to tree tops. And she does not live in his cottage and is not all the time watching swarms. She got only some swarms back.
Reason is that she has no muscles enough to lift heavy langstroth boxes. It is common among lady beekeepers.
I retired and I thought that I have time to help in her jobs:
- look in spring, that hive and brooding is OK, and take too much winter food away
- clip queen wings
- follow swarming fever = queen cells
- if queen cells, make false swarm
- unite later false swarm and brood hive
- take care that brood hive does not swarm
- add boxes in order: brood boxes, added empty boxes and then honey boxes with stuff
- give foundation boxes to draw (2 boxes a year, about)
- take capped honey off, and move empty frames over the brood-
- cleaning the whole hive if it has too much rippen honey, like 3 boxes
- queenless hives, or angry hives: give a new mated queen
and so on........
Now, during 3 last years she have got 60-80 kg honey. Her hives are so tall that she need ladder to nurse them.
Bees are really calm, compared to 5 y ago. Every angry queen will be flat, when she notices the problem
She get a good money from that honey. She is mere smile.
She feed the hives well herself and add thymol for varroa. The yeard goes well.
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T
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Just read the lasts 45 posts on this thread :shock: . Now you can make your own decision.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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MERINCE -I agree and by the number of bees in May and the number now I'm sure they swarmed more that once. I'm convinced if he keeps going like this he will not stay in the hobby long. I don't mind helping and it makes me feel good to give him a hand and share what little I know (I remind him I'm just into this 2 years myself) I have 7 hives so I have to put a effort in learning. I pick up a little from ALMOST everyone.
First thing I learned (within 2 months) was every beek has a different way of beekeeping and passing it along. Some will take the aproach of: this is what I learned, this has worked for me or this did not work for me. another aproach: This is how to do in, what I do works, what he does will not work.
Both are saying the same thing, just different aproaches from different personalities with bees in different places and thats ok.
dan
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my head hurts
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my head hurts
:goodpost:
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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WOW!
It might be helpful if all readers and especially those who are posting a response actually read what they were commenting on.........you know who you are ;) Well maybe.... :-\
If we can't take the time to actually absorb another's thoughts 'in writing' on a forum w/out getting all worked up and offended there's little hope we could ever do so face to face, not a very promising future, heh?
There is a very good reason why we have 2 ears, 2 eyes and ONLY ONE MOUTH. Do I need to say what the reason is?
Zip em up Boys :-D Someone start another thread PLEASE!
Hasn't this gone on long enough? This thread is like a ball of confusion.
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Yes, I have seen that if some is going to do stupid thing in forum, you are not allowed to stop him.
You are then trouple maker. You may write all kind of rubbish and admin says that "this is not an academy. Let the folks keep their faith.
I really cry when I see those newspaper-sugar things.
Beeks save inspections but they do much things which are never needed.
The most awfull are ideas when California and Florida gives wintering advices to Michigan.
USA, great country - great tolerances.
Funniest thing what I have met is to make 1:2 syrup to bees. Because you are not able to do it, use solid sugar.
What is so difficult to make 1:2 syrup. The clue is that you see the sugar weight in the package. Now you need only measure a proper amount of water. But but but.
And mixing sugar and water.....that chilcren learn at the age of 3 when they drink morning tea.
So mixing is under control but that measuring water....are you going to kill bees...
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Hasn't this gone on long enough? This thread is like a ball of confusion.
WHAT!!!
Experienced (so called) beeks debate, how often to open the hive cover.
After reading opinions you are confused. Who is confused and what for?
At leat I continue my way up to grave yard. I open my hives as much as I want.
Now I should take the last feeders off and put Oxalic trickiling into those hives.
Should I ask opinions from this forum? - A good spamming?
- not now, not now oxalic. - But however, I put it.
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My methods have experienced several evolutions since 1974 and will likely....hopefully, continue until I'm dead.
Only 40 years...Everything was OK , but then you came to this forum...
First sight was love but when you became acquainted with...
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my head hurts
my head hurts
:goodpost:
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Sorry Guys. I just got a little carried away.
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No teaching or learning going on here.
No debating either. Debate requires civility..........and intent LISTENING to other viewpoints............ w/out ridicule.
Love ya'll later...................... 8-)
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No learning going on here.
You still believe that Michigan is coldest place in the world and you need straw balls to handle it!
okay then..
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Thanks for proving my point FIN.
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When are you going to get reindeers to Michigan? They are handy in cold climate.
Pic from Yakutsk
(http://askyakutia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/reindeeryakutia02.jpg)
You understand reindeers when you see the may road of Yakutian. Deep frost in soil melts and then you are in collective trouple.
http://www.russiablog.org/Moscow-Yakutsk-highway.jpg (http://www.russiablog.org/Moscow-Yakutsk-highway.jpg)
http://photos.imageevent.com/motorbiker/newspics/Siberian-Road-to-Yakutsk.jpg (http://photos.imageevent.com/motorbiker/newspics/Siberian-Road-to-Yakutsk.jpg)
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No (known) Reindeer or domesticated Caribou around the Great Lakes Region, lots of "wild" Deer, Moose, Elk, Bear, Wolves, even some Mountain Lions still moving around, few people, few cities. In the last decade Northern Wisconsin and Michigan's Upper Peninsula has seen an enormous increase in the Wild Turkey population, likely due to our 'above average' temps and reduction in snow fall averages..........YUM-YUM 8-) Wwwwwild TTttturkey, can't hardly till the next one comes my way 8-)
A benefit of climate change?
Our Winters are still long (from first to last frost is still 7 months) but not nearly as cold as they were 10-20-50 years ago.
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MERINCE -I agree and by the number of bees in May and the number now I'm sure they swarmed more that once. I'm convinced if he keeps going like this he will not stay in the hobby long. I don't mind helping and it makes me feel good to give him a hand and share what little I know (I remind him I'm just into this 2 years myself) I have 7 hives so I have to put a effort in learning. I pick up a little from ALMOST everyone.
First thing I learned (within 2 months) was every beek has a different way of beekeeping and passing it along. Some will take the aproach of: this is what I learned, this has worked for me or this did not work for me. another aproach: This is how to do in, what I do works, what he does will not work.
Both are saying the same thing, just different aproaches from different personalities with bees in different places and thats ok.
dan
Dan,
You are probably right - some people want a hive, for a lack of better word as an "yard ornament". In the past, before varroa, they were probably alright leaving them alone. However - as you have seen from personal experience - nowadays bees require a great deal of involvement to keep them thriving. So far he's been lucky. When his luck runs out, you may be the lucky recipient of his equipment :-D
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IMHO this looks like a good place for all of us to reread these rules.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,1614.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,1614.0.html)
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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IMHO this looks like a good place for all of us to reread these rules.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,1614.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,1614.0.html)
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
and yet we see threads like this over and over with one or two common denominators. there are people that are definitely not here to help. it's easier to just throw your hands up and walk away and hope that the o.p. get's his or her answer.
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[quote author=T ,jbb
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No (known) Reindeer or domesticated Caribou around the Great Lakes Region,
Caribou and reindeer are very different animal. Caribou do not want that human is its master.
We have in FInland too original reindeers which are very wild and cannot nurse as reindeers
"A recent study on reindeer mtDNA (Røed et al. 2008) identified at least two separate and apparently independent reindeer domestication events, in eastern Russia and Fenno-Scandia (Norway, Sweden and Finland). Substantial interbreeding of wild and domestic animals in the past obscures DNA differentiation, but even so, the data continue to support at least two or three independent domestication events, probably within the past two or three thousand years.
Social differences between reindeer populations show that domestic reindeer have an earlier breeding season, are smaller and have a less-strong urge to migrate than their wild relatives. While there are multiple subspecies (R. t. tarandus and R. t. fennicus), they are not necessarily divided between domestic and wild animals, the result of continued interbreeding between domesticated and wild animals, and the likelihood that domestication took place relatively recently."
and that's why you you should inspect your hives every day........wait aminute.
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ökug
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and you do that based off of the differences in the breeding cycles of reindeer?
it seems like this thread has gotten WAY off topic and become more about who is right all the time and who isn't. it seems like it would have been shut down long ago.
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and you do that based off of the differences in the breeding cycles of reindeer?
it seems like this thread has gotten WAY off topic and become more about who is right all the time and who isn't. it seems like it would have been shut down long ago.
What about newspapers, strawballs, thanksgiving day honeyballs, dry sugar to suck in 13 litre respiration water, do nothing to varroa, climate is different in different places, nothing is no cold as Michigan
Good heavens. Why don't you cry for stupidity?
You are not serious or are you? And same with Jim
You are there so totally smart...
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Reindeer are in fact domesticated Caribou. They are virtually the same animal.
Reindeer are 'force bred' or 'artificially bred' by breeders while Caribou breed naturally....when they want to :-D
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Aaaamen
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Happy New Year! Hope all is well and your beekeeping endeavors are rewarding.