Monsanto #2

[BjornBee]

I did not want this link to get lost on a multi-page thread that is already being discussed about Monsanto. So I will post this here so as many can see this as possible.

And keep in mind the first part as it discusses GMO mosquitos and what this could mean with Monsanto buying up bee research companies. GMO bees? The bee discussion is about half way through. But you should listen to all of it.

http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=392D72A0CD569C34A603BB4883029B51

 ;)

[kingbee]

... I did not want this link to get lost on a multi-page thread... So I will post this here so as many can see this as possible...

Thank you, I sat through it twice.
I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry so I cried.  I hadn’t cried so hard since I first read Dr. Joseph Gobbles’ (Hitler’s Propaganda Chief) speeches in the original German. 

In the first segment is a graphic that asks, “How do we STOP the genetic engineering of our food supply?  I didn’t think then that Jeffery Smith was going to present much of an un biased representation of non organic agriculture.  After goggling Mr. Smith I found this bio on his own web sight:

“The leading consumer advocate promoting healthier non-GMO choices, Jeffrey M. Smith, is the author of the world's bestselling and #1 rated book on the health dangers genetically modified organisms (GMOs). His meticulous research documents how biotech companies continue to mislead legislators and safety officials to put the health of society at risk, and the environment in peril.

His first book Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies about the Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating masterfully combines the art of storytelling and investigative reporting…”

What the heck does story telling have to do with investigative reporting?  Besides isn’t “story telling” an euphuism for lying?

Continuing with Mr. Smith’s bio:
“His second book, Genetic Roulette: The Documented Health Risks of Genetically Engineered Foods, is the authoritative work on GMO health dangers. It includes 65 health dangers, linking GMOs in our food to toxic and allergic reactions, infertility, and damage to virtually every internal organ studied in lab animals…”  Name one.

For the last 170 years American has been plagued by health food charlatans, like Mr. Smith, or Dr. John Harvey Kellogg.  They have hawked everything from sexual abstaincance, to female circumcision to yogurt enemas and now anti-GMO rhetoric to generate book sales.  BTW, early health food crusaders condemned honey because honey caused one to think about their “honey.”     

Kellogg stole the recipe for Granula (yes I spelled it right) from Dr. J. Calab Jackson who operated a competing health spa in New York State called Our Home on the Hillside.  Soon Kellogg was selling Granula at his spa at the ‘San’ in Battle Creek, Michigan.  When Jackson was done suing, Kellogg changed the name of his trail mix to Granola and it has remained Granola ever since.

Now back to Mr. Smith, the only thing of interest I gleaned from his video is Smith’s claim that corporations are feeding cat food to mosquitoes, (minute 3.30 to 4.00) and his claim that a corn variety that doesn’t require as much water as other corn verities is not a drought resistant corn verity.   And to reinforce his scientific bonfires Smith states that mosquitoes that don’t bite (male mosquitoes) bite humans.   He’s got to be kidding, right? The last line in Smith’s own web sight is his only expertise in agriculture. The last line in his bio reads, “Mr. Smith lives with his wife in Iowa, surrounded by genetically modified soybeans and corn.”  Come on! 
http://dansville.lib.ny.us/historyo.html#castle
http://www.circumstitions.com/Kellogg.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg
To give the devil his due Dr. Kellogg did live to the ripe old age of 91 as did his brother Keith.  So I don’t know how much of JHK's long life is the result of  Dr. Kellogg’s never engaging in sex, eating meat or taking 3 soy yogurt enemas a day, and how much of his long life was the result of his genes.  But I do know that the Wisconsin wiener impresario Oscar F. Myers lived to be almost 96 and he fathered 4 children.  Go figure. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_F._Mayer

[ranger774]

Now that kingbee report took some work to come up with, and was quite interesting.  Thanks.

[BjornBee]

I think it is typical to attack a subject, by attacking side issues and bringing in side points of issue. Golly gee, let's even dismiss what he says because he wrote a book. Wow...what a concept!

I personally think the anti-GMO movement is fast growing. I think those who fully support (by dismissing those that oppose) Monsanto and others, will in the end be found to be foolish in their blind trust of international multi-billion dollar corporations who want to control the food industry, by claiming they want to "help" those that they target. We have seen that MO before. But yes, lets trust the greed and intentions of large corporations such as Monsanto, while attacking some guy for writing a book.

I am convinced that GMO and GMO neonicotinoid pesticide laced seed (they go hand in hand) are detrimental to bees, and the environment. And I do not think that I should blindly trust GMO for the fact that the companies such as Monsanto said I should. With the track record of the EPA recently in regards to their approval process of pesticides, who knows what things are approved out there. Fortunately, we have a great track record in this country of buying into many "approved" items. Everything from women's health aids, to bee treatments. And many items have come back over the years to be found harmful.

But the nice thing of a forum is the keeping of discussions like this with archives. While many hate pulling out past conversations, I like the fact that you can look back many years later and reading what foolish trust some had in years past.

While I do not buy all my food from organic stores (I have issues with them also), and could be hardly considered an advocate for some of the more radicals out there with stances of bee conferences being marketed as being HFCS free, and other similar stances, I do think having a conversation of where the food industry is headed, and what the intentions of such companies as Monsanto, are healthy. I just question the personal bias that some have in so strongly attacking anyone and everything, that seemingly goes against GMO crops. Of course many support GMO crops and they have already fully bought into anything that Monsanto is doing. I don't think the full story or environmental impact has been realized. And I think with the technology we have today, it will only get worse while Monsanto is unstoppable.

Go ahead and try to convince me they are well intentioned. Go ahead and tell me why you trust GMO and Monsanto the way you do. But please don't bring up Kellogg and side issues that hardly justify, support, or explain, what needs to be discussed. Your point is being lost I suppose by the amount of smoke being blown.

[ranger774]

Even without the possible effects of GMO products, just the rights that the farmers loose to the companies, such as not being able to keep some of their own seed to use the next year etc. takes away many of their rights.  They do not even control a product grown on their own land.

[backyard warrior]

We as humans are too smart for our own good. In my eyes we are slowly ruining the land and our food supply some things just shouldnt be touched and the food supply is one of them.  Leave it as nature intended  having gmos sounds great but the long term effects seem awful scary in my eyes. Chris

[splitrock]

"Now that kingbee report took some work to come up with, and was quite interesting.  Thanks."

Kingbee claims eating of organic produce caused the bacteria outbreaks in vegetables in the recent past, and that monsanto is our friend with our best interests in mind. I won't waste any of my time reading any propaganda of his.

"Have any of you kept up with any of the cases of food born illnesses contacted from fresh produce?  No?  Well most of these outbreaks result from eating raw organic fruits, greens, and veggies."

[Lone]

Could someone please start from the beginning and tell us who Monsanto is and what country/countries it is owned by, who runs it, what does it do, whose legislation it is under and where it is operating.

Thankyou,
Lone

[luvin honey]

Monsanto is the company that brought us Agent Orange, bovine growth hormone, genetically engineered crops, saccharin, DDT, PCBs, etc.

Here's a blurb from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto

They are a multinational country based in St. Louis, Missouri.

A few environmental notes about Monsanto:
"According to an anonymous 2001 document[28] obtained by the Center for Public Integrity, Monsanto has been identified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as being a "potentially responsible party" for 56 contaminated sites (Superfund sites) in the United States. Monsanto has been sued, and has settled, multiple times for damaging the health of its employees or residents near its Superfund sites through pollution and poisoning. 


Monsanto is the largest producer of glyphosate herbicides through its popular brand, Roundup. A report released in June 2011 linked glyphosate to birth defects in frog and chicken embryos at dilutions much lower than those used in agricultural and garden spraying."

Their response to requests to verify the safety of GMO food (per Wikipedia): "Monsanto should not have to vouchsafe the safety of biotech food. Our interest is in selling as much of it as possible. Assuring its safety is FDA's job."

[luvin honey]

Here's an e-mail link I just got in my inbox. It's by Mother Earth News, so clearly biased. However, their list of what Monsanto has given us lines up exactly with what my husband and I have seen in our lives as farmers.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/healthy-people-healthy-planet/monsantos-false-advertising.aspx?newsletter=1&utm_content=02.13.12+HE&utm_campaign=2012+HE&utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email

•increasingly expensive seed
•a huge reduction in biodiversity, as Monsanto snaps up smaller seed companies and gains more ownership of seed strains
•lawsuits against farmers whose own crops have been contaminated by Monsanto’s patented seed
•overwhelming rises in the applications of its herbicides, including Roundup — which has been linked to a host of health and environmental problems
•the creation of “super weeds” and “super pests” that no herbicide or pesticide will control

[ziffabeek]

Has anyone read "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" by Barbara Kingsolver?  It is a really great book that looks at the history and possible future of agriculture, farming and corporate agriculture in the U.S.  I recommend it highly.  The discussions of the necessity of diversity in food, not just for "hip" or "cool" factor of heirlooms, etc. is very interesting and, frankly quite frightening.  It addresses many of the subjects and ideas presented in this post.

(disclamer: I have not had the time to view the video you posted. )

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, BjornBee, if you have read it.

love,
ziffa

[luvin honey]

Yes, read it. It was an interesting read.

[kingbee]

... Kingbee claims eating of organic produce caused the bacteria outbreaks in vegetables in the recent past, and that monsanto is our friend...

After reading, re-reading, and reading my post one more time once again, I can not find even one instance where I mentioned M-o-n-s-a-n-t-o-'-s name.  It is likely that the cultural subconscious conditioning we under go today prompted you into thinking that I did.  It was the Russian scientist Ivan Petrovich Pavlova who was the first to study the effects of preconditioning when his dog heard Pavloav's dinner bell ring. 

What I am trying to do is to prevent us from taking a giant leap of faith off a cliff or into the abyss by following greasy self serving false prophets who often have a political agenda (think about that Global Warming thingy) and who (IMHO) at best are only out to sell cheesy books on the lecture circuit or else trick lonely little old ladies with too many cats, into remembering him in their wills. 

I can prove my statements about raw organic food killing humans.  I can prove ALL of my statements about health food hustlers from the health food gold rush days of the past.  Can you prove any of the charges brought by anyone against M-o-n-s-a-n-t-o- or for that matter any of the accusations about GMOs in this or any other thread?  I am betting it is all fear mongering, hearsay, and wealth or money seeking and that like Pavloav’s dogs, we have been conditioned to go into a slobbering fit when we hear the buzz words M_O_N_S_A_N_T_O,   GMO,   or pesticides. 

[BjornBee]

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, BjornBee, if you have read it.

love,
ziffa

I have never read it. Sounds like something I should. I am sure it contains not one truth, or one topic to consider, since the author is probably some greasy money grubbing writer.  :-D

I'll do a search and see if I can be foolish enough to jump into the abyss and throw my money away.   ;)

[BjornBee]

Here's an e-mail link I just got in my inbox. It's by Mother Earth News, so clearly biased. However, their list of what Monsanto has given us lines up exactly with what my husband and I have seen in our lives as farmers.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/healthy-people-healthy-planet/monsantos-false-advertising.aspx?newsletter=1&utm_content=02.13.12+HE&utm_campaign=2012+HE&utm_source=iPost&utm_medium=email

•increasingly expensive seed
•a huge reduction in biodiversity, as Monsanto snaps up smaller seed companies and gains more ownership of seed strains
•lawsuits against farmers whose own crops have been contaminated by Monsanto’s patented seed
•overwhelming rises in the applications of its herbicides, including Roundup — which has been linked to a host of health and environmental problems
•the creation of “super weeds” and “super pests” that no herbicide or pesticide will control

Surprising how some claim all these statements are not true, and only fostered by writers who are out to make a buck.  ;)

I had detailed some of these issues, like super weeds, over the years. Here is a link to an article called "Beekeeping 20 years from now", dated March 2011. http://www.bjornapiaries.com/beekramblings201112.html

Easy searches comes up with multitudes of articles and research backing every point you made. Surprising to me how some claim that everything you mention is not happening, or at least is based on some leap of faith. It's not about supporting some belief of folks like Kellogg of the past, or every claim about organic food production. It is about supporting and offering something alternative to the path that billion dollar biotech firms are sending everyone down. But there will always be those who will go kicking and screaming, in attempts to be superior, etc., based on the alternative not being "perfect" enough.

If there was two choices...furthering the destruction as I see it by the likes of Monsanto with increased chemicals and GMO, or supporting (and even correcting what might be wrong with organics or alternative farming) other options that differ from the main system we now have, I think we might be wise to consider the latter. And for those that stand throwing rocks bashing those trying to do better than what Monsanto has to offer in farming, might as well be on the Monsanto payroll. They are doing their bidding. It might be disguised as trying to be smarter than others, but I'm sure Monsanto is just fine with it. Casting doubt and resistance come in many forms.

[splitrock]

"After reading, re-reading, and reading my post one more time once again, I can not find even one instance where I mentioned M-o-n-s-a-n-t-o-'-s name. "

It's the title of the thread, you didn't have to tell us who or what the subject of discussion was. WE know by the context of the thread that you knew who you were talking about too.

"It is likely that the cultural subconscious conditioning we under go today prompted you into thinking that I did.  It was the Russian scientist Ivan Petrovich Pavlova who was the first to study the effects of preconditioning when his dog heard Pavloav's dinner bell ring."

Looks like you like to toss out straw men arguments and distractions to make you sound smart.

"I can prove my statements about raw organic food killing humans."

Ok show me one where they died from eating raw organic and hadn't choked or ate tainted, or undercooked food.

The same pathogens you must be speaking of can, do, and have ALL been known to come from food found at your local grocer, convenience store,  restaurant, fast food joint, and even home kitchens.

The pathogens WE are talking of, well, we know where they are coming from.

"What I am trying to do is to prevent us from taking a giant leap of faith off a cliff or into the abyss by following greasy self serving false prophets who often have a political agenda"

OK, I won't, I promise. I can clearly see what it does to people.  ;-
 Nobody is arguing that people haven't died from eating tainted food, same as nobody is going to believe you that they died just because the food was organic and raw.

" (think about that Global Warming thingy) and who (IMHO) at best are only out to sell cheesy books on the lecture circuit or else trick lonely little old ladies with too many cats, into remembering him in their wills. "

Not sure why you would want to go there, BUT...........Knowing how small you think this global warming "thingy" agenda is, I can understand how you have missed the boat on toxin producers too. The global warming scheme is about dealings much more than lining pockets from book sales and lectures. Someday I hope someone takes the time to show you just how BIG and BAD that bugger really is too.

I wouldn't be betting if I was you kingbee............ Ding!

[BjornBee]

Interesting how global warming has come into this. Because global warming (also known as "climate change" but makes little difference since the agenda is the same.....duh!) is part of the control and food games in the future. Why do you think so many big players have been investing in the biotech food industry?

Here is how it works....

fact....more than 50% of the worlds population is starving to some degree. Many folks live in countries with little industrial production (so trade in unlikely) or need for our trivial "things". But they do need food.

If you get any form of cap and trade passed, where we will be sending money to others countries that don't use their "credits", it creates the opportunity for the food giants to reap trillions.

You think we are going to send trillions of actual dollars? It does not work that way. We will work out deals to pay much of that money in the form of food. This of course will all be worked out by higher ups running the whole scheme.

So investment in the biotech industry, and purchasing large tracts of land (here and abroad), all can be seen today as this moves forward.

Then you tax the average citizen here for cap and trade, collect the money, and then pay for companies like Monsanto to dole out the seed, chemicals, and the actual food. (since they will own much of the mass produced crops like wheat, rice, etc.)

You really think anyone (beyond a few smaller organizations) really wants to teach others how to produce their own food in other countries? You think the promoton and marketing of virgin untainted lands in third world countries has any real concern in keeping it that way for long?

Right now, getting your fingers on aid packages to third world countries for things like food, are cumbersome and amount to pennies. Start passing around trillions in cap and trade credits, and that is what folks are working towards. That is where the real money will be.

And if you have patents on the seeds and a strangle hold on the farming industry both here and abroad, like Monsanto, they will cash in big time. No need to mess around with training folks in these countries (beyond fake store front PR campaigns to sell the false idea of anything but the truth). Monsanto and others will do all that real production for them.

When some suggest some "control" of the worlds food industry, this is what we are talking about. large international companies, and perhaps a few in Government will benefit. And don't be so foolish to think any of that food going overseas will be taxed to benefit the average citizen here. The gap of haves (multi-billion dollar industries) and you will continue to grow.

It will not come down to training or providing the infrastructure of these other countries to produce for themselves. It will come down to enslaving them in the system, taxing the American people, and having international biotech firms (headed by front people such as Bill gates) all making Billions.

Meanwhile, the real fools are those that think this "cap and trade" stuff is about the environment. Or that it is about helping third world countries beyond enslaving them and raping their resources.
That of course is what they want you to think.

And so it goes...... :roll:

[Lone]

Thanks Luvin and all.

I remember hearing on the radio a few years ago that it was a legal requirement to have foods containing GMO ingredients labelled as such.  The interviewee was saying that it was taking some time because all foods had to be traced back to the source.  Shortly afterwards, I saw some foods labelled as NOT containing GMO products.  I can't see that with the amazing worldwide communication abilities we have that it should take more than minutes to trace back ingredients to determine if they are GMO or not.  Obviously that legislation has been overturned  because never since that time have I seen a food label admitting that it does contain GMO products.

Lone

[luvin honey]

Easy searches comes up with multitudes of articles and research backing every point you made. Surprising to me how some claim that everything you mention is not happening, or at least is based on some leap of faith. It's not about supporting some belief of folks like Kellogg of the past, or every claim about organic food production. It is about supporting and offering something alternative to the path that billion dollar biotech firms are sending everyone down. But there will always be those who will go kicking and screaming, in attempts to be superior, etc., based on the alternative not being "perfect" enough.

Thank you :)

Really, all the points are pretty much obvious through (un)common sense.

1. Increasingly expensive seed--just look it up!
2. A huge reduction in biodiversity--it seems obvious that the more and more GMO seeds are planted, the less and less diversity there will be. Unless there are huge new plots of farmland being created for diverse production. I'm pretty sure there are not. Huge plots of farmland are going to even MORE corn and soy (GMO) since the prices are so great right now.
3. Lawsuits against farmers whose own crops have been contaminated by Monsanto’s patented seed--again, just look it up
4. Overwhelming rises in the applications of its herbicides, including Roundup — which has been linked to a host of health and environmental problems--Look up RoundUp sales. This is anecdotal, but it is difficult to find a household on our 3-mile stretch of country road in which someone has not fought or lost to cancer. It is hard to find a family in our commutnity not touched by cancer. My husband lost his business partner last year at age 44 to colon cancer.
5. The creation of “super weeds” and “super pests” that no herbicide or pesticide will control--my husband attends conferences on new strategies for coping with these superweeds. Monsanto has changed its crop strategies for farmers to deal with this problem. Even Monsanto knows about it.

[luvin honey]

Thanks Luvin and all.

I remember hearing on the radio a few years ago that it was a legal requirement to have foods containing GMO ingredients labelled as such.  The interviewee was saying that it was taking some time because all foods had to be traced back to the source.  Shortly afterwards, I saw some foods labelled as NOT containing GMO products.  I can't see that with the amazing worldwide communication abilities we have that it should take more than minutes to trace back ingredients to determine if they are GMO or not.  Obviously that legislation has been overturned  because never since that time have I seen a food label admitting that it does contain GMO products.

Lone

Monsanto fought it bigtime. Milk producers here tried to label their milk rGBH free, but Monsanto fought until they weren't allowed to do that. Labeling it free of rGBH "indicated that one was better than the other" and of course consumers would vote with their pocketbooks and Monsanto would lose. They fight labeling here.

So, right now, the ONLY way to be assured of GMO-free food is to buy certified organic.