Stimulative Syrup Feeding Fact or Fiction?

[rdy-b]

sounds like your patty formula is for sugar patty -50% not protein

I do not understand your thinking. How can you put  "high" protein into the hive without 50% sugar?
However, bees need much sugar too. What goes wrong?

Normal bee bread in combs has 30% honey-sugar.

I use now much dry yeast because I get it very cheaply. When I make that patty porridge, sometimes it makes air bubbles, which means that yeast is fermenting. I add sugar and it stops. You see that it is critical point.

when you add an amount of sugar to a mix you are reducing the PROTEIN %-we chose to keep the protein % up at a efficient rate of % for the bees benefit-we use phagogastric stimulants to increase consumption-and add attractants with the use of lemon grass oil and spearmint and so forth-to maintain
consumption-this provides high intake of protein-bees get carbs through syrup -thin syrup-stimulates brood
this is done as early as OCT----DEC-to rear and maintain large winter bee population -they are then feed to make sure they are not protein compromised intill FEB---when natural event takes place-
I understand that the mix you are using requires you to add high levels of sugar to stop the fermentation-have you tried to change the PH to a more acidic -like honey --try lemon juice- RDY-B

[rdy-b]

-finski feeds huge amounts of sugar syrup to his bees before winter sleep-it

It is on average 20 kg per hive to consumption September to May, 8 months

Is that huge?

You live in California and it is difficult to understand how things are here.
But well, you seems to have snow rain there -2C and +5C, just like we have in April.

We have no flowers in April. Soil is frozen. Grass start to grow in the middle of May.

http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=94517

its not huge for FINLAND -but it dose not stimulate brood-so thats why you are of they determanation that sryup wont stimulate brood- in your case thats corect but it is not absolute -and in other location can be very efective -to give the bees false spring and early start-but your bees will take rest in snow and freze so you must wait intill DANDYLIONS--RDY-B

[Finski]

.
Here thin syrup does not stimulate brooding.

Bees get enough protein from my patty. Willow pollen has only 15% raw protein and that is why bees eate patty with willow pollen.

I do not use food industry chemicals to be perfect. I have only 20-30 hives.

I have notices that bees need to get 3 hours water a day to get enough water from outside and that needs sunshine. Water foraging bees are thousands.

I have made in sunny patches water pools to feed them and glass plate frotection to keep them warm

[Finski]

its not huge for FINLAND -but it dose not stimulate brood-so thats why you are of they determanation that sryup wont stimulate brood- in your case thats corect but it is not absolute -and in other location can be very efective -to give the bees false spring and early start-but your bees will take rest in snow and freze so you must wait intill DANDYLIONS--RDY-B
[/quote]

Grazy man. I do not know what stimulating I need.  I live 100 miles away from my hives and I am not stimulating them all the time.

[rdy-b]

its not huge for FINLAND -but it dose not stimulate brood-so thats why you are of they determanation that sryup wont stimulate brood- in your case thats corect but it is not absolute -and in other location can be very efective -to give the bees false spring and early start-but your bees will take rest in snow and freze so you must wait intill DANDYLIONS--RDY-B

Grazy man. I do not know what stimulating I need.  I live 100 miles away from my hives and I am not stimulating them all the time.


[/quote]thats why we feed huge amounts --6lbs at a time-- :lol: RDY-B
 leaves plenty of time for BANK DEPOSIT- :lol:

[rdy-b]

try this recipe-- 8-)
Protein Patty Recipe

1.  125 lbs.  Sugar  (Add water and keep wet.  Should be a little thicker than pancake batter.)

2.  Add either 3 cups citric acid or 4 quarts of lemon juice, (this is to put the ph at 4 ½  to 5) 3.   Add 1 cup Honey Bee Healthy (optional , but we prefer)

4.  Add ½ bag Vitamins & Electrolytes (we use Russell’s)  (2 oz. worth)

5. Add 10 lbs. pollen (optional)

(keep the mix wet)

6.  Mix in 25 lbs. of Inedible Dried eggs

7.  Add 3 ½ cups Canola Oil

8.  Mix in 24 lbs. (2 gallons) Honey

9.  Finish by adding 50 lbs. Brewtech Brewers Yeast.  Water until it has the consistency you desire.
 ;) RDY-B
this gives you 20% protein before adding watter
 

[Finski]

.
When you calculate your recipe, you 50% sugar there.

I do not try that recipe. Dried eggs? - it gives no advantage as protein

I use now  this protein source

2 parts dry yeast  (for baking)
1 part soya flour    animal milk replaces Hamplet Protein HP 100
1 part irradiated pollen

fructose instead of honey --- keeps patty moist


************

Rdy, you have pollen under minimum. Minimum is 20% to be palatable and you have only 12%

.

[rdy-b]

yes that is specal 50% recipe for you- and other beekeepers
 in FINLAND -i thought you would like-- :lol:--RDY-B

[Finski]

.
Dry yeast is lighter as protein source but if you add it, it hardens the patty and bees have difficulties to eate it.

If bees do not get enough protein they eate more that stuff. No problem.

As vitamin I use multivitamins and C-vitamin (ascorbic).
From an  Egyptian reseach I read that Magnesium is usefull to brooding. Now I add it.

[Finski]

.
3 kg dry irradiated pollen
0,7 litre water to soften pollen over night
3 kg dry baker yeast
2 kg soya flour with fat or without
1 kg fructose ( or honey if you do not have AFB)
1 kg flour sugar
3 multivitamin pill crushed and diluted into water.
150 mg C- vitamin = Ascorbic acid powder
___________________
10,7 kg total



I do not give that to Californian beekeepers becase I have taken the recipe from US laboratory researches.

You have lemons there in trees (citric acid + ascorbin acid + lemon oil)

We have here only pine cones in trees.
.

[rdy-b]

 needs canola oil for omega3 and lipids -will keep paty soft
may substitute with corn oil-RDY-B
i have already given away to many secrates- ;)

[Finski]

needs canola oil for omega3 and lipids -will keep paty soft
may substitute with corn oil-RDY-B

Yes, I use it. HP 100 is not fat but its protein has balanced for baby animals.

Look what egg has. It has almost as much fat as protein, and bad cholesterol fat!

http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=858&lang=en

[rdy-b]

ok dont say i didnt try-the fats are good for bees--RDY-B

[bee-nuts]

Finski or any northern beek with experiance

I am worried my bees have not pollen at all.  Fall of 2009 they had lots of winter/spring pollen stores.  But this last fall I did not see hardly any reserves at all.  I feed them pollen patties to rear their winter bees on.  Im worried that they dont have the pollen the need to raise any healthy brood at all right know.  The last dead out I found had all kinds of honey, a small patch of brood and zero pollen.

Do you still think I should not feed any pollen?  I know they should be raising some brood right now.  If they do not have the nutrients available, wont they just deplete what is in their bodies to raise brood, get sick and die?

[rdy-b]

BEENUTS--when dose the natural event of pollen gathering start at your location-RDY-B

[rdy-b]

 finski-need more info on HP100
is this it
http://www.asn-nutrition.com/hp100.htm  RDY-B

[bee-nuts]

Mid to late march, or as soon as they can fly.  If they can fly their is tree pollen everywhere.  Last year it was unusually very warm and on the 8th there was snow on the ground and the bees had not been able to fly yet other than some cleansing flights.  On the 12th it was in the 50s or 60s and they were bringing in pollen by the bucket, (white) a few days latter they were bringing in yellow pollen in by the bucket, by April first I had two brood boxes full of bees and brood and queen cups up the wazo.  I took lots of brood from them and made nucs to try to re-leave swarming and they still started swarming 4th of May a couple weeks ahead of normal.  That was a very weird spring though and I think it screwed up all the late pollen sources that would have been available for winter.

I am not a pro with years of trial and err but it seems they raise brood anyway this time of year so I kind of have a hard time believing it would hurt them if I give them a half pound of pollen patty every hive but I am not going to take a leap of ignorance and kill em all.  Has anyone tried water in frame feeders? I have frame feeders in every colony.  Should be above freezing most days, hives are insulated, and wrapped in felt.

[rdy-b]

 I dont live in snow but i think the comment you made about condensation is a good point
 i also now that the 1/2 pound of sub would only help your bees -your almost at the time they gather there pollen -and yes they should start rearing brood as the days are lengthening and that is a big part of it also
 ;)  RDY-B

[Finski]

finski-need more info on HP100
is this it
http://www.asn-nutrition.com/hp100.htm  RDY-B

look for Hamlet Protein USA

it is a Danish Company

[T Beek]

Bee-nuts;  I'm gonna start leaving mine patties in the next few days, waiting for another warm up as its been going down to zero the last few nights, as you must know.  Willows and others will be coming on w/in next few weeks, this being the perfect time for a head start.  Once they start actively flying again (first day we get above 50F) I'll open feed with DRY substitute.  I've been noticing some popple trees opening up, so it won't be long now, just need temps to coperate.

You're right, last Spring, heck, last year, had some weird weather, even for us ;)

thomas