Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: sterling on February 21, 2013, 07:48:12 pm
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I was stumbling around the internet and saw this on the West Virginia Beekeepers news letter. What do you think?
Did you know? Using corn products (cobs, husks, leaves) as smoker fuel is detrimental to your bees !!! They produce a smoke that kills bees hours to days after exposure. Commonly used fuel sources include: burlap bags, rags, cardboard, wood chips/pellets, compressed cotton, pine shavings, eucalyptus leaves, and broken pine needles.
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When I worked with REDBEE for they honey season in S.D. corn cobs soaked in old motor oil was all we used. As far as I know they were all that were ever used over 30yrs. Lighting the smoker was a learning curve but once lit, they would burn a good while. I sure didn't notice any harm being done to the bees.
Scott
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like Scott said every commercial beekeeper in the mid west that I know uses corn cobs and have for over 50 years ,we use to bring drums filled with cobs to Texas for smoker fuel because they worked so well and could be picked up anywhere in the corn belt
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I like pine straw (last years needles) it is always available under any longneedles evergreen. My favorite is old gunny sacks/burlap/jute bags. Not enough corn cobs here for the outhouse and penny's just dropped their catalog. Hard times coming.
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Maybe somebody got a contaminated batch.
JC
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I gather a trashcan full of cobs and a trashcan full of husks out of our field every year for use as smoker fuel. That's pretty much all i've ever used in my apiary.
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i would say that pine straw has been used for at least 100 years down here in the south. too much of any kind of smoke is bad for the bees and probably kills some. a couple of puffs in the entrance followed by one or top as you open the top should be all you need to get through most hives.
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OK...I'm not in Virginia and will probably never have the opportunity to use corn cobs as smoker fuel.
That being said, things like this spike my curiosity.... :-D
I shot an email off to the president of the WVBA along with a link to this thread explaining that this bit of information seemed to be new news to everyone here. Asked if he could supply some further information as to theory or science to support this recommendation.
When/if I get a response, I'll be sure to post. :)
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Although I am a newbee I have talked to a lot of the commercial producers locally and hear over and over again that our bee populations in Ontario are decimated the week they plant the corn. The suggested cause is seed corn treated with pesticide. Since this is a modern innovation I wonder if these cobs used in smokers might also be affected by traces of the same pesticide? (Just wondering 'out loud')
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Well fshrgy99, the same thoughts were passing through my mind...primarily neonicotinoids possibly being present in the cobs. Research has found that a liquid given off by young corn plants whose seed has been treated by neonicotinoids is deadly to honey bees (but thankfully the bees don't really care much for it...as long as other nectar sources are present) so I could see have chemicals could end up being in the cob. Having said that, cotton is heavily poisoned and many folks use trash that is gleaned from harvested fields...I've heard cautions given about using it but never an outright report of it harming some bees. Making burning it neutralizes the poisons? Like 10framer said, though, too much of any kind of smoke isn't good for the bees.
Ed
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Anyone else have any thoughts or heard any more on this?
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Anyone else have any thoughts or heard any more on this?
Lately I have seen multiple people on other forums talking about how they don't use smoke because its so harmful to the bees, and its harmful to the beekeeper with repeated exposure, etc etc.
I feel like its a lot like the treatment free thing, some people do it and swear by it, some people don't. I have heard of people using corn cobs as smoker fuel because they smolder nicely. If it did cause issues, maybe its a biproduct of some sort of chemical that is leftover on this heavily modified & treated corn we have nowadays.
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Although I am a newbee I have talked to a lot of the commercial producers locally and hear over and over again that our bee populations in Ontario are decimated the week they plant the corn. The suggested cause is seed corn treated with pesticide. Since this is a modern innovation I wonder if these cobs used in smokers might also be affected by traces of the same pesticide? (Just wondering 'out loud')
AustinB
maybe its a biproduct of some sort of chemical that is leftover on this heavily modified & treated corn we have nowadays.
If the report is correct, that makes sense. You both may be right?
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My concern is that the bees live a few weeks and the smoke may harm them whereas we live many years consuming the same chemicals which may accumulate, in us, over time. Who knows, cares, or is watching the results.
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I recently tried the leaves, ends, and hairs off of corn cobs we had for dinner. The cobs came from a local market garden.
Put those in the smoker to mess with a few hives behind the house. While I enjoyed the smell, kinda sweetish popcorn like, the bees response was unexpected and surprising. In few words, they freaked out a bit. The cornscraps smoke did not calm them as well as other fuels I use. It seemed to make otherwise calm hives to work with, runny on the combs and alot of excessive fanning. One hive got surprisingly aggressive/defensive - completely out of character for them. Again, as compared to my other smoker fuels.
I have no idea if it is bad for them, for reasons mentioned by others above. I can only say I did not like their response to it. No more cornbits shall be used in this huffer-puffer.
Just one data point as FYI.
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Something that I read and almost forgot. "Add a little bit of Ammonium Nitrate to the smoker and this makes laughing gas ie: N2O" It is supposed to calm the the most aggressive hive. I also heard personally from a 90+ YO BEEK that they used tobacco when he was younger and it calmed the meanest hive. Just a thought.
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My concern is that the bees live a few weeks and the smoke may harm them whereas we live many years consuming the same chemicals which may accumulate, in us, over time. Who knows, cares, or is watching the results.
That is a very good point Paus... I wonder if the theories mentioned in these post of pesticides being incorporated into the cob, (the place of corn incubation), has been proven to exist there, being a hazard when burnt for smoke?
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My favourite smoker fuel I recently discovered is broken-up egg cartons. Stays smoky for a long time - and I always have a few in the house.
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My favourite smoker fuel I recently discovered is broken-up egg cartons. Stays smoky for a long time - and I always have a few in the house.
I can see that working. I was talking to one of my bee buddies from Texas a few weeks ago and he told me of another fuel I had not considered, pecan shells. He says this also makes a good smoker fuel. He is a member here. Maybe he will chime in when he reads this.. :grin:
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I like cut grass. It is not stiff and does not get in the way of the lid and lots of times more is just laying on the ground by the hives.
Cheers
gww
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I like cut grass. It is not stiff and does not get in the way of the lid and lots of times more is just laying on the ground by the hives.
Cheers
gww
Thats what I have been using too. I actually raked some up after drying/curing, and put it in a couple buckets so I will have it on hand.
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1st of all buy the biggest smoke you can get... I'd like the Dadant.. Has a grill on it For heat... Of course it's the most expensive one... Also It is 10" long.. Now for the fuel... I use everything you can think of most likely... Even dry cow Patty. For about the last 10 years... Use punky wood and pine straw.Or Pine shavings from tractor supply. With pine straw..
BEE HAPPY Jim134 :smile:
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ben
I keep a couple 40 lb chicken food bags full in the garage.
I cut my grass long enough and my mower will leave furrows like we used to rake in the hay fields and once dry, only have to grab a few bags once a year and like I said, refills are many times just laying on the ground down by the hives. It is very easy to manipulate. I also use any other thing that is most handy at the time.
Cheers
gww
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ben
I keep a couple 40 lb chicken food bags full in the garage.
I cut my grass long enough and my mower will leave furrows like we used to rake in the hay fields and once dry, only have to grab a few bags once a year and like I said, refills are many times just laying on the ground down by the hives. It is very easy to manipulate. I also use any other thing that is most handy at the time.
Cheers
gww
Yep gww same here, same hayfield scenario thinking. The reason I use the buckets is they are free from Kroger. (Empty icing buckets), I can pack em and stack em in the corner. Grab one when I go to my other bee yard and chunk it in the back. Mice can not get in them in the cooler weather.
I do not think Paus would mind me telling. He is the one who told me about pecan hulls. He said they smell pleasant and last a long time.
He gave me another tip about collecting them. He said go to a pecan sheller and they will probably give me all the hulls I would need. I am thinking I could store them in buckets too.
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I had a visit from an Albanian bee keeper who. through an interpreter said that a piece of old brood comb put in the smoker would calm aggressive hives.
I haven't tried it.
For general smoke we use literally anything though my favourite is eucalyptus leaves because i like the smell. We use alot of hesian in summer as it doesn't spark as much.
Dry horse or cow manure is the longest lasting smoke, smolders for ages. No bad smell as it is basically grass.
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Oldbeavo it is winter here. The tip given sounds good to the ear. It is winter here in my area and I will not be needing smoke anytime soon. Maybe you will get a chance to try this out soon? If so let 'us' know how this works out. I am optimistic!! As always from one member to another, thank you for sharing information here at Beemaster!!...
Phillip