Author Topic: when to add second hive body (Read 14398 times)

stonecroppefarm · « **on:** March 02, 2011, 12:54:37 am »

I am a new beek and expect two nucs to appear end of April. I plan to place each in a deep super to start. Then I plan to add a second deep super to each. When do I add this? Will I have to add another super (medium) the first year?

indypartridge · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:23:21 am »

Add the second when they have drawn comb on 8 of 10 frames in the first.

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Will I have to add another super (medium) the first year?

Depends on the bees, the weather, the nectar flow, etc. Have it ready, add it if/when they get the 2nd deep drawn out.

Acebird · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2011, 10:23:30 am »

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Will I have to add another super (medium) the first year?

I would say you have a weak colony if you didn't get two medium supers on before the end of the season. But what do I know.

Hemlock · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2011, 12:23:36 pm »

I put my second Deep box on after the bees drew out 6 of the 10 frames in their first Deep box. 15 day later there were 6 frames of brood in the bottom Deep & 2 frames of brood in the upper Deep; with many more drawn out. So i guess it worked well.

Finski · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2011, 01:17:32 pm »

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I put second box under brood box that heat of brood does not escape to the empty box.

Bees are able to occupye combs downwards as they do in nature.

Acebird · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:27:17 pm »

Quote from: Finski on March 02, 2011, 01:17:32 pm

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I put second box under brood box that heat of brood does not escape to the empty box.

Bees are able to occupye combs downwards as they do in nature.

When you lift up the brood box what keeps the bees from tearing out after you from the open bottom?

Finski · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:50:22 pm »

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I don't understand what you mean?

Acebird · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2011, 04:28:32 pm »

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I don't understand what you mean?

Well, I am sure they won't tare out after you but is there any concern with the bottom of the box being open that it would agitate the bees while you have the box in your hand. I would also assume you have to put the brood box down on something flat so you can get the empty box in position and then place the brood box on top of that.

Finski · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2011, 04:35:05 pm »

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I do not understand that either .....
I lifth the brood box off from bottom board, then I put on bottom board the new box an over it the brood box. .. What is so special in that?

Joke or not, but a bad one.

Kathyp · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2011, 04:59:35 pm »

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When you lift up the brood box what keeps the bees from tearing out after you from the open bottom?

why would they be more apt to do it from the bottom than they are from the top? i set my box on an empty box, lid, or extra bottom board. then put the new box on bottom board and put old box on top. if you do it with the lid still on, you actually have fewer bees flying than taking the top off and putting on a new box.

Acebird · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2011, 05:20:43 pm »

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why would they be more apt to do it from the bottom than they are from the top?

My thought was that you are picking the whole hive up, possible changing orientation somewhat, setting it down and then picking it up again and setting it down. I have never done it before so I like to know what I am getting into before I try something. Glad to hear it is not a big deal.

Can I assume that splitting a hive would be similar? Just split the two boxes and then decide the arrangement of the frames for both boxes?

Finski · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2011, 05:27:24 pm »

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Much of beekeeping is lifting and puting down boxes and changing their places.

It is better that you go to some more experinced and see how it happens.

buzzbee · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2011, 06:47:43 pm »

Not trying to change the subject,this topic reminds me of a strange commercial:
I Lift Things Up and Put Them Down

But bottom supering is nothing new.

hardwood · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2011, 10:33:47 pm »

Just snatch off the box and stand it on it's end (handle). I did it 50 times or so just today.

Scott

Michael Bush · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:23:57 am »

>When you lift up the brood box what keeps the bees from tearing out after you from the open bottom?

The top is wide open. Why would they react more from the bottom being gone? If they are "tearing out after you" they would have done that when you took the top off and you probably either need to be more gentle or get a new queen...

>Can I assume that splitting a hive would be similar? Just split the two boxes and then decide the arrangement of the frames for both boxes?

There are a lot of ways to go about it. With small boxes, like eight frame mediums, I just do it by the box. Two bottom boards and "deal" the boxes.

Acebird · « **Reply #15 on:** March 03, 2011, 09:51:02 am »

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they would have done that when you took the top off

Kathy already told me not to take the top off and I am going to listen. :-D

Any of you older types interested in a purpose built winch that you could wheel up to a hive and crank up boxes similar to a boat winch? I am thinking about whipping one up to save my old back. I keep hearing that you should super from the bottom so is three boxes the most you should have to lift. Shoot for a 300 pound capacity?

Finski · « **Reply #16 on:** March 03, 2011, 09:55:07 am »

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That lifter would be an innovation in beekeeping. Save the old backs!

tillie · « **Reply #17 on:** March 03, 2011, 10:05:59 am »

Acebird,

If you haven't done an inspection before there are videos and slideshows on the Internet (YouTube, my blog, other websites devoted to beekeeping) that will show you how it's done. I think Brushy Mountain has a whole series of helpful videos.

Sounds like you are trying to visualize something in your head that you could see a movie or slideshow about and save yourself the energy of trying to make it up.

Linda T in Atlanta

Acebird · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:22:59 pm »

Ah thanks Linda. Excellent, excellent slide shows.

So you slide the boxes back into position. I could envision sheering a whole row of bees off when you get to the other side.

Finski · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2011, 03:17:58 pm »

Quote from: Acebird on March 03, 2011, 01:22:59 pm

So you slide the boxes back into position.

i have seen how many slide the box on its site it crushes bees quite much. Bees become mad with that system.

You should smoke bees away ja then drop the box on site. Don't ask how high.
5 mm is an answer.

This is first time when some one ask how to lift a hive box.

Acebird · « **Reply #20 on:** March 03, 2011, 03:49:43 pm »

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i have seen how many slide the box on its site it crushes bees quite much. Bees become mad with that system.

You got to love beekeeping. It is the only thing that I have tried where you don't have to know a fool thing and you can end up doing it right by somebodies method. :-D

So Finski, 5mm about 3/16 inch. Bringing it down that close by hand might be a trick without bumping the corners. I think I'm liking my winch idea. I'll let you know how I make out with that.

Finski · « **Reply #21 on:** March 03, 2011, 04:10:01 pm »

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Inch has been derived from thump. It is easier to measure the distance of boxes with thump/inch. But if it is difficult, try foot.

5mm is 1/60 foot.

tillie · « **Reply #22 on:** March 03, 2011, 09:32:17 pm »

I'm not sure what you mean "slide on its side." I slide the box slowly onto the box beneath.

Like a bulldozer, the bees are gently pushed out of the way and I don't kill bees.

If I simply set the box back into position, I'm sure to kill bees who are unknowingly perched on the side of the box.

The secret for me in all bee manipulation is to respect the bees and their home, so I move very slowly and slide the box slowly in order to allow them time to get out of the way. It works great and I don't end up feeling bad about killing bees because I don't kill bees this way.

But I also use very little smoke - one puff at the entry is about all I do with any hive inspection, so I wouldn't want to smoke them just to get them out of the way so it would be more convenient for me to "drop a box onto the hive."

Linda T in Atlanta

Finski · « **Reply #23 on:** March 03, 2011, 11:55:15 pm »

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Lesson # 1

Take box up
put box down

with respect and gently

with some hives included: and then RUN !

Acebird · « **Reply #24 on:** March 04, 2011, 09:56:26 am »

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Like a bulldozer, the bees are gently pushed out of the way and I don't kill bees.

Linda, what happens when you get to where the bottom side wall meets the top side wall? Do you do any angling or do the bees just get out of the way at that shear point?

tillie · « **Reply #25 on:** March 04, 2011, 03:30:38 pm »

Like I said, the bees are gently pushed ahead of the box. Since no bees were between the sliding box and the box beneath there's no way that they are killed. Since you don't have bees, maybe it isn't clear to you but bees can turn a corner and walk easily down the front of the box. They don't just stop when they come to an edge 8-)

Acebird · « **Reply #26 on:** March 04, 2011, 04:50:27 pm »

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Since you don't have bees, maybe it isn't clear to you but bees can turn a corner and walk easily down the front of the box.

:? :? I have had bees for two seasons now but have never taken a whole box off and put it back on. For the very last inch of the box position there is a shear point between the top and bottom box. Apparently the bees get out of the way before they are cut in half.

Hemlock · « **Reply #27 on:** March 04, 2011, 05:44:16 pm »

Quote from: Acebird on March 04, 2011, 04:50:27 pm

[:? :? I have had bees for two seasons now but have never taken a whole box off and put it back on.

Are you saying that you have boxes on your hives you have never inspected or looked into?

What kind of setup do you have? Double Deeps; Mediums; Nucs; TBH; a Skep?

Acebird · « **Reply #28 on:** March 04, 2011, 07:16:27 pm »

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Are you saying that you have boxes on your hives you have never inspected or looked into?

Pretty much.

We have two deeps and got up to two medium suppers full of honey. Then we took off the two supers and harvested the honey. So through the winter it is a two deep hive. I like the idea of all the same equipment so I made 6 medium boxes and bought frames From betterbee to expand to another hive, maybe a nuc or two if it works out. So equipment wise I have now 8 medium-8 frame boxes and two 8 frame deeps.

When we removed the supers in the fall we could see that the hive was crammed full of bees but didn't remove any frames to look at them. Yeah, I know it goes against all the rules.

Kathyp · « **Reply #29 on:** March 04, 2011, 08:24:24 pm »

what rules? i was looking at one of mine and realized the hive staples were still holding the bottom box and bottom board together. i don't even remember when i caught that swarm, but apparently i have never lifted it and cleaned the bottom board. it's a hardy hive, so....i'll get at it this spring ;-)

NasalSponge · « **Reply #30 on:** March 04, 2011, 09:55:50 pm »

Hummm, I don't know about this thread. Not going thru your brood chamber ever?? Never heard of that management technique. I go thru my boxes in the spring to check for overall health, swarm cells, brood patterns, honey and pollen stores, signs of pests and disease etc.....can't see that from on top. I also find my queen in a hive before I pull frames for nucs and she usually ends up on one of the last frames bottom box... :) As far as pulling boxes, I throw my cover upsidedown on the ground and set my box on it at an angle, sometimes I will cover it back up with the inner cover to keep the girls calm and out of direct sunlight. I don't know I think I am in a bit of shock here....

Kathyp · « **Reply #31 on:** March 04, 2011, 10:02:42 pm »

won't deny that you should check your hives. just don't think that it's a rule :-) the newer you are to beekeeping, the more you will learn by getting in there and seeing what's happening, catching problems early, and knowing what is normal and what is not.

Acebird · « **Reply #32 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:47:10 am »

Quote from: NasalSponge on March 04, 2011, 09:55:50 pm

Hummm, I don't know about this thread. Not going thru your brood chamber ever?? Never heard of that management technique. I go thru my boxes in the spring to check for overall health, swarm cells, brood patterns, honey and pollen stores, signs of pests and disease etc.....can't see that from on top. I also find my queen in a hive before I pull frames for nucs and she usually ends up on one of the last frames bottom box... :) As far as pulling boxes, I throw my cover upsidedown on the ground and set my box on it at an angle, sometimes I will cover it back up with the inner cover to keep the girls calm and out of direct sunlight. I don't know I think I am in a bit of shock here....

The first year at the end of the winter (March) they were all dead (consensus was moisture) so we went through the brood boxes then and started again with another hive. In February of this year they were alive like last year and it is now March. Judging from the comments made on this forum about the photos of my hive this years they may not make it this year either. If they do I will try a split. I will also try a trap out because the opportunity exist. With any luck I will be working two hives. That could mean twice the fatalities. :'( Hey, you guys said it is better to have two hives right?