Help-no queen, worker laying

[beefie]

Hi everyone, I have a small hive which was queenless for a while and it seems that a worker bee has started laying eggs. I have no idea how to find the laying worker and am worried that if I unite with another hive the good queen may be killed. Can anyone give me any suggestions about what to do? Thanks alot in advance.

[Bennettoid]

I would combine them using the newspaper method.

[Robo]

If the hive you combine them with is a strong one, you shouldn't have any problem combining them with newspaper.

[newguy]

i combined a laying worker hive with a 5 frame nuc and it worked great.  so i would think you should be fine. how big is the queenless hive?

[rdy-b]

the way I do it ,is I take the laying worker hive as far as i can cary it (one box at a time)  a couple hundred yards if i can closer will still work .the botom still in the old  place.then remove frames ,frame by frame while doing this shake off all bees.put empty box back on botom board,there should be plenty of bees already flying back. place frames in box ,that are clean of bees.do the second box if it was two boxes.I belive that laying workers do not Orient because they start to act like queens. the other bees even feed them. so they do not know there way back to hive location. the laying workers will stay crawling in the grass.much of the problems requeening or combining depends on the length of time the colony was queenless.  if you do not remove the laying workers you are playing russian roolete.many ways to make queenright,i prefer to install a nuke of at least four frames brood.always make shure my yard has nukes ready to install or to make increase. this works for me I hope it helps you  RDY-B

[Michael Bush]

>Can anyone give me any suggestions about what to do?

Yes:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

[rdy-b]

I will tell my BEES to visit that site :-D seems they read the wrong book :lol: 8-)

[Michael Bush]

>I will tell my BEES to visit that site grin seems they read the wrong book

I post the link because otherwise I would have typed the same information about ten times this week...

If you united with another hive, they might kill the queen.  If you put a new queen in, they will most likely kill her.  If you put open brood in, they will most likely not raise a new queen, the first time.  But if you repeat this three or four times a week apart they will probably rear a new queen and get back to business.  If all that's too much trouble, just shake them out in front of the other hives and put the equipment on the other hives and call it good.

You don't have one laying worker.  You have thousands.

According to this, a typical booming queenright hive has about a thousand laying workers.  A booming hive has 100,000 bees and one percent of that is 1,000.

See page 9 of "The Wisdom of the Hive by Thomas Seeley"

    "Although worker honey bees cannot mate, they do possess ovaries and can produce viable eggs; hence they do have the potential to have male offspring (in bees and other Hymenoptera, fertilized eggs produce females while unfertilized eggs produce males). It is now clear, however, that this potential is exceedingly rarely realized as long as a colony contains a queen (in queenless colonies, workers eventually lay large numbers of male eggs; see the review in Page and Erickson 1988). One supporting piece of evidence comes from studies of worker ovary development in queenright colonies, which have consistently revealed extremely low levels of development. All studies to date report far fewer than 1 % of workers have ovaries developed sufficiently to lay eggs (reviewed in Ratnieks 1993; see also Visscher 1995a). For example, Ratnieks dissected 10,634 worker bees from 21 colonies and found that only 7 had moderately developed egg (half the size of a completed egg) and that just one had a fully developed egg in her body."

[bhough]

Michael,

You replies are always very thoughtful and logical.  Thank you.  I am a frequent visitor to your website which is an excellent resource.

b

[rdy-b]

yes they say there are thousands of laying workers. seams to me that only one or two are laying eggs at one time - maybe potential laying workers.still very intrresting stuff I read the web page.the part MORE INFO about laying workers. says Its the pheromones from open brood that supress the laying workers from developing, but some do anyway Its not queen pheromone as many older BOOKS suggest. :-D I thought you would get the phun.I still think when they start to lay eggs they lose sense of orientation, because they take on the roles of queen. I also belive the length of time the colony is queenless reflects on the succes rate to make the colony queenright.these are only my observations nothing more. your web site rates #1 in my book.   Your friend in beekeeping  Thad Shirley the RDY-B

[Michael Bush]

>I also belive the length of time the colony is queenless reflects on the succes rate to make the colony queenright.

There is a definite relationship between being queenless and broodless (as the queen lays the eggs) but it is not always exactly the same thing.

[rdy-b]

I am wondering why  after the laying workers make drone brood (somtimes may frames) that the brood pheromone dose not suppress the laying workers. I have noticed the number of laying workers increases  with time. maybe it has to be from the queen to supress,Back to the queen again.one thing for shure they are easyer to make queeright with added brood. RDY-B

[Michael Bush]

>I am wondering why  after the laying workers make drone brood (somtimes may frames) that the brood pheromone dose not suppress the laying workers.

I've wondered that as well and I wonder if it's a brood pheromone only made by worker brood that suppresses the laying workers.

[Brian D. Bray]

MB,

My guess would  be the same as yours.  I think it is the difference in the pheromones between the fertilized and nonfertilized eggs.  The fertilized pheromones would inhibit a laying worker but would not necessary probit her from continued laying.

[beefie]

Beefie here,
Thanks to all who offered suggestions - I learnt heaps. The hive in question was very small so I took a risk and united it with it's far superior neighbour. Fingers crossed.  :)