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Author Topic: What now?  (Read 2790 times)

Offline Mason

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What now?
« on: June 01, 2009, 05:59:20 pm »
Hello,

I have 2 hives that are new.  Hive "A" seems to be less active.  They are also less aggressive.  There does not seem to be as much brood in hive "A" and I think I removed a queen cell this past weekend.  I have 9 frames in each hive.  Hive "B" has 7 of the 9 frames built out and hive "A" only 5.  Both hives consume about the same amount of sugar water.

I'm sort of at a loss here.  Should I wait for all 9 frames to be built out before I put on my queen excluder and honey super which are also not built out? 

   
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: What now?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 06:14:06 pm »
couple of questions:  why did you remove the queen cell?  do you expect to get honey from a new hive?

do a search here on excluders.  most people don't use them.  i do sometimes but there are tricks to using them successfully. 

i am thinking that if you have two new hives and the are only one box for brood (a deep?) you should be working on building up and probably not be thinking about honey.  they need good numbers and a good amount stored even for your milder winters.
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Offline jeremy_c

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Re: What now?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 06:24:15 pm »
All hives are different. I installed 2, 2# packages on Apr 20th and 1 hive already has 12 frames filled. The other is working on it's 6th. From what I am told by a local bee keeper, a 2# package having 5 frames filled at this point in the game is on par. My 12 frame hive is simply doing fantastic. So, it would seem that you also have a hive that's doing very well (above normal) and another hive that is just normal.

Also, you should be going by the 70% rule. When 70% of your hive (normally 7 of 10 frames) is filled, then add more room.

About using 9 frames, I believe that is only beneficial in a honey box, not a brood box. It can be counter productive in a brood box? i.e. The cell depth will be deeper than normal but it's just wasted space when it comes to brood, they don't need that much space. Now, when it comes to honey, they will fill the cell regardless of how deep it is, thus you can actually have an increase of honey storage when using 9 frames in a honey super. I hope I am saying this right as I also am a beginner and am just repeating what I've been taught :-D

Jeremy
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Offline iddee

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Re: What now?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 07:00:01 pm »
A colony makes a queen cell when they need a new queen. By removing it, you may likely make your hive queenless. Then they die.

Excluders are used under drawn comb only for the first few years you keep bees. The more experienced beeks can use comb honey supers, but get smaller harvests when doing so.
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Offline Mason

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Re: What now?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 09:00:47 pm »
Ok so as usual all over the charts,


do I really want my hives to make their own queen?  If I find myself queenless I have been told to purchase a queen.

I know I should have 10 frames in my brood box but I have 9.  I will need to make two more boxes to make the conversion rather than trying to remove the spacers with the bees in the hive.

On the hive that has built out well.  Should I just drop the honey super on them without the queen excluder to build them up?

I think I will wait and see what hive A is going to do before I do anything else.
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Offline Kathyp

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Re: What now?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 09:11:24 pm »
Quote
do I really want my hives to make their own queen?  If I find myself queenless I have been told to purchase a queen.

the answer to this depends on local resources.  will there be enough drones.  is there enough pollen and nectar to keep the queen well fed.  can your hive wait for a queen.  can you boost the hive with brood from another while you wait.  i have not purchased a queen in 3 years.  with one exception, the queens that the hive raised were superior to the ones i had purchased before.  if i lost a queen late in the season, i would buy one.

if you need more room for brood, add another box for brood.  when you are sure they are built up enough and have a good flow going, add a honey super.  usually a 1st year hive does not give excess honey, but sometimes they do.  you will have to watch and make that call when you can see that they have adequate stores and numbers.

the advantage to getting a lot of answers is that you have more info to make your own decisions.   the disadvantage is that you have to figure out what advice will work best for you.
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Offline Hethen57

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Re: What now?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 09:17:54 pm »
The 7 of 9 drawn box should be ready for a super (or just another brood box).  I would not put on a queen excluder yet and I don't think many people would recommend one at this point (I would say "don't think any", but then I am sure someone will come out of the woodwork and say how he/she always does it and it works great.. :-D).  So add another box with frames, preferably 10, but if your boxes are fitted with 9 frame rests, than 9 will have to work.

The other one is not ready for another box, as it would leave too much open space in the hive.  Wait til that hive draws 7 or 8 frames before adding another box.

As far as feeding goes, it may all over the charts, but I would feed until they quit taking the syrup or until you get the the point where you need to add another super (#3).  My reasoning is that drawing wax takes a ton of resources and I'd rather help them out to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible.  Others may disagree.  I hope that helps.
-Mike
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Offline Mason

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Re: What now?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2009, 04:16:21 pm »
I suppose I may be worrying too much and should continue to ride it out and do the best I can.  I appreciate the advise.  It does give me some options and things to think about.

The worst that can happen is I lose all my bees and end up with a bunch of built out frames.  Even if that were to happen I would be far ahead of the game next year.

I don't have another brood box ready to go.  Most of the local guys only have one brood box per hive with the supers on top.  I'm going to drop a honey super on top of the stronger hive without an excluder and keep feeding. 

"I'm in the wax business for now and can think about honey later" will be my strategy

 
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Offline mherndon

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Re: What now?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2009, 05:11:12 pm »
If you end up queenless, you can always combine the two hives together.  Newpaper method should work, but only if the one hive is without a queen.  One big force of bees would do better than two mediocre hives.

Mark
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Offline Mason

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Re: What now?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2009, 11:55:04 am »
Here is my plan,

I dropped a framed super on the good hive and have a temporary front feeder until I get another super for my top feeders.  Base, brood box, super, inner cover, top cover. (no excluder)

I'm going to pick up a couple of medium supers so I can continue with my top feeders on both hives until completely built out.  I am also picking up an additional brood box and frames to have on hand and swap to a 10 frame brood boxes.  I get my stuff from a local beekeeper and anxious to chew on his ear for some local advise.

Checked hive A again.  There is developing brood.  Food consumption is equal to the other more developed hive.  I didn't see the queen or eggs but I rarely do.  Actually I have never seen an egg because I think my eyes are not up to par and I need glasses but definitely have developing larva.

My focus is wax.  I'm just going to keep feeding and feeding until the hives are built out.  That way even in a worse case scenario I should start next year with built out frames.

good/bad?

 
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: What now?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2009, 03:31:15 pm »
>do I really want my hives to make their own queen?

Absolutely.  Your queens are far too important to be importing them from other climates and getting queens that will never be as good of quality as what you can raise:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm#why

> If I find myself queenless I have been told to purchase a queen.

I've been told a lot of things... ;)

>9 frames...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#framespacing

>On the hive that has built out well.  Should I just drop the honey super on them without the queen excluder to build them up?

I would probably never use the excluder, but minimum, I would leave it off until they are working at drawing the comb in the super.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#excluders
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Offline Mason

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Re: What now?
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2009, 03:34:13 pm »
Taking it all in,

hive A is still not building out the new frames very well.  I did not see the queen but did see new eggs progressing to capped brood.  Hive B is kicking ass and already building out the new medium super.

I took both hives off feeding 50/50 sugar water earlier in the week.  Would continuing to feed my bees in the middle of the flow possibly make them lazy and use more space for storing cheap honey rather than brood?
Former beekeeper until March....maybe next year...RIP