Author Topic: grooved vs. wedge frames (Read 8449 times)

tlynn · « **on:** March 31, 2009, 01:04:26 am »

I got my last batch of frames and duraglit and the frames were wedged. I found it time consuming to slice off that one strip and then try to staple it tight against the foundation. Most of the frames' foundation ended up not being snug anyway. Can I just use grooved with the duraglit?

Thanks

Tracy

beeslinger · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2009, 10:45:11 am »

One of the companies has a wood frame that is cut through the top and you just slide the foundation in. It might be from Betterbee (can't remember). This may only be for wax foundation. When you find it call and ask first........ i also watched one person bend the plastic (Pierco) foundation and snap it in. I have not used any other plastic frames/foundation, it may break if bent too far.......

Robo · « **Reply #2 on:** March 31, 2009, 01:11:11 pm »

Kelley's new style frames allow you to just drop in the foundation. I wouldn't think grooved frames would work too well for duragilt.

Windy Ridge Apiary · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2009, 10:39:03 pm »

I just put 50 Kelley frames together. It takes time to put them together but the foundation just slips right in. Don,t get the foundation with hooks or you will have to cut the hooks off. In the long run The one piece plastic from Mann-Lake might be the best bet.

justgojumpit · « **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2009, 09:12:44 am »

or just do foundationless frames and buy a nail gun to assemble the frames. Best thing I ever did when it comes to frame assembly... My fingers are thanking me for no longer having to dodge the hammer!

justgojumpit

doak · « **Reply #5 on:** April 18, 2009, 10:05:25 pm »

When you cut the wedge off, you have to trim both the wedge and the top, it leaves a saw "kurf" on both.
I like wedge tops because they are "versatile". If you get the little kurf trimmed right they will clench fine. :)doak

Tom Cannon · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2009, 11:57:08 am »

or just do foundationless frames and buy a nail gun to assemble the frames. Best thing I ever did when it comes to frame assembly... My fingers are thanking me for no longer having to dodge the hammer!

Do you mean no foundation in the frames? Then the bee's just make comb on the top bar?
I'm new to beek and learning from reading the posts here. It seems like the comb would fall down with out the use of wire or some other support.

thanks,
Tom

Brian D. Bray · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2009, 02:45:19 am »

Quote from: Tom2 on May 03, 2009, 11:57:08 am

or just do foundationless frames and buy a nail gun to assemble the frames. Best thing I ever did when it comes to frame assembly... My fingers are thanking me for no longer having to dodge the hammer!

Do you mean no foundation in the frames? Then the bee's just make comb on the top bar?
I'm new to beek and learning from reading the posts here. It seems like the comb would fall down with out the use of wire or some other support.

thanks,
Tom

No foundation. A narrow strip of wood, plastic, coroplast, wax foundation, popsicyle sticks, of some such is place in the grove of the top bar and the bees build the comb down from that. The strip is there to help insure that the bees build the comb from the center of the top bar rather than either edge. It don't fall, the bees attach it to the frame.

Tom Cannon · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2009, 01:14:19 pm »

Thanks Brian, I've got some just plain wood frames and will give them a try.

abeeco · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2009, 05:06:30 pm »

Tom -foundationless will work (I love them) but there are a few things to consider
-dont place a whole empty box of them on with out at least one drawn comb or frame of foundation. (this to get the bees headed in the right direction.
-if you are looking for consistantly good comb, the best way to start using them is empty frames to the outside of the brood nest
-check out michael bush's web site on this subject
-if put on a strong colony, the first frames will be drone, this in normal. move to the outside and they will use them for honey storage, eventually they will start making good worker comb.

if you are using deeps you might consider wiring them

Tom Cannon · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2009, 11:29:30 am »

Thanks for all the good information!
Tom

charles · « **Reply #11 on:** May 06, 2009, 10:45:39 am »

Duragilt foundations pop right into a grooved frame.

I'm having some good success with popsicle sticks as starter strips. My kid eats these small popsicles with 4-inch sticks. I put two in each frame with about an inch overlap in the middle to make it wedge into the groove. Bees like it fine.

Robo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 06, 2009, 12:09:04 pm »

Tom2,

Here is how I do it with coroplast strips. Cut the strips for free election signs, slide them in grooved top bars and an air stapler or nail thru the side of the top bar holds it tight. No falling out like with wax and no glue and drying with popsicle sticks.

Michael Bush · « **Reply #13 on:** May 06, 2009, 07:59:39 pm »

>It seems like the comb would fall down with out the use of wire or some other support.

It might seem that way, but it's what bees have been doing for millions of years without our help at all and without wires and without supoort...

Tom Cannon · « **Reply #14 on:** May 13, 2009, 02:09:50 pm »

Thanks for the tip Robo. I just ordered some frames from Mann Lake and will give it a try.
I went back to work on the 4th only to find out that it really cut in to my bee keeping activity's :'(
My wife has some old plastic sign's I'll experiment with.
thanks again,
Tom

challenger · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2009, 11:46:57 am »

I'd love to purchase some new frames but the shipping is prohibitive. I really think the beekeeping suppliers are gouging beekeepers on shipping. Please correct me if I am wrong but I only buy frames when there is a special. I am making my own frames because the cost of buying new will hit the amount of money I give the the Cancer research foundation hard. I think the last time I bought frames and paid shipping the shipping was the price of the order PLUS some $. If anyone knows a place to get a good deal on shipping please let me know.

Robo · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2009, 12:03:53 pm »

Try shipping a 50lb and see what it cost you.

I don't believe the bee companies are gouging. This is what happens when the government keeps taxing and taxing and taxing. The cost of doing business goes up and it ends up coming out of the consumers pocket.

fermentedhiker · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2009, 12:19:26 pm »

I've always found that waiting 'til I need a bunch of stuff is the best way to bring the shipping cost/item down to something reasonable. For example buy a whole case of medium frames from betterbee with shipping to my location is 89$ so less than a buck a frame. Not dirt cheap but I think I've got better things to do with my time than try and compete with .90cents a frame building them myself. Also a lot of members stock up on Brushy Mountains free shipping offer in the winter.

cundald · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2009, 12:34:20 pm »

The way I've been able to keep the cost down, was to schedule a trip to the bee supplier when I have large orders.

We also have at our local beekeeping association website, a message board, listing anyone that is taking a trip out to the supplier, and willing to pickup other members orders.

cundald

steveb · « **Reply #19 on:** May 19, 2009, 04:10:46 pm »

I agree the best way to hold shipping down is to go to the supplier. If they are far away then make a big order by saving up or pooling orders. The take a truck and maybe a trailer up and pick up your order all at once. That is one of the values of working together as a local organization.

Now on the wedged verses grooved tops....Wedged work good as a universal top. They can hold any foundation. Grooved tops are designed to more ridgid plastic foundations such as Plasticell or Pierco. Those foundations just snap into the gooves. I really like both of those. The problem with Duragilt is that it is not ridgid enough. I hear way too many people complain about it blowing out no matter what frame they put it in. If you use it start your extraction with warm frames/honey and start it slow (which is not a bad idea anyway).