Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS => Topic started by: Bee Curious on May 05, 2013, 10:35:07 pm

Title: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Bee Curious on May 05, 2013, 10:35:07 pm
My first hive is ready and waiting for my bees next week.  It consists of boxes I bought and assembled and parts I built myself: telescoping cover, screened bottom board, stand.  I painted them in late March.  Two coats of primer and two coats of Benjamin Moore Mooreguard Low Lustre Acrylic "oops" paint.  The paint is dry but when I stack the pieces together, they stick to each other.  I've even had to use my hive tool to pry pieces apart. They sometimes take a little paint off the adjacent piece when I pry them apart.  I've put them out in the sun a few times (I'm storing them on my enclosed back porch) but they still stick. 

Is it the low lustre finish?  Any ideas?   :?
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: AllenF on May 05, 2013, 10:40:55 pm
Bees will glue everything together as soon as they are in those boxes.   Don't worry about the paint causing them to stick.   It just needs to cure a little longer. 
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Moots on May 05, 2013, 10:56:45 pm
BC,
I think it's just a matter of being fully cured.  When I do stack my boxes after I think they're dry, I stagger them to minimize this problem...and yes, I've had the same issue.

However, you did say something that peeked my curiosity.  Why two coats of primer?  I've seen a number of folks mention that they do this, and it just seems counterintuative to me.  I "briefly" searched a few painting forums and aside from trying to enhance wood grain or cover a difficult to cover color, I couldn't find anyone that thought there was any advantage to doing it.
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Bee Curious on May 05, 2013, 11:14:27 pm
Moots,
The only reason I did two coats is that the primer can said to--at least that's how I read it.  I'll have to check.

BC
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Moots on May 05, 2013, 11:18:04 pm
Moots,
The only reason I did two coats is that the primer can said to--at least that's how I read it.  I'll have to check.

BC

Wow! That would be interesting...Don't know that I've ever even read what my can says...I'll have to check. 
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: tefer2 on May 05, 2013, 11:25:41 pm
Latex paint takes a month to fully dry.
Try rubbing some vaseline petroleum jelly on the edges.
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Simon on May 05, 2013, 11:32:17 pm
A lot of the beekeepers here paint their boxes inside and out, generally with acrylic paint. Before I get flamed, most of the store bought boxes are made from radiata pine and then treated with copper naphthenate wood preserver to make them last a bit longer.  Radiata doesn't stand up to the outside environment very well at all without some treatment and I suppose the paint inside the boxes protects the bees from any ill effects of the copper naphthenate.  The acrylic (water based paint) doesn't worry them, but the boxes stick together until the paint is well cured.  This may take several weeks outside in the sun and rain and you have to keep the boxes apart while this happens or your paint job will be marred.  Like AllenF said, some missing paint from where the boxes touch isn't normally a problem.  If you are a bit impatient, after the paint has dried for a couple of days, you can smear a very light coat of vaseline/petroleum jelly around the top and bottom of the boxes where they touch and then they wont stick together.  Just be careful to use very, very little as the vaseline will make the boxes slip apart and your nice neat stack/hive will fall over really easy.  It will prevent the bee's propolis from sticking too.

On the primer point, some of the exterior acrylic paint is self priming (eg. Wattle Solagard here) and it sticks pretty well once it's cured.  I have painted a timber dinghy with it and the rocks have a hard time removing any paint from the bottom.  This type of paint is pretty thick (too thick generally) and so covers pretty well without any primer undercoat.   

Simon
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: BlueBee on May 06, 2013, 04:23:11 am
I think it's just a matter of being fully cured. 
Nope.  Sounds like somebody doesn’t have much experience with paint. :shock:

Bee Curious, the real problem is a technical paint term called "blocking".  The only way to really prevent this problem is with oil based enamel.  Over time the blocking problems with your latex finish will subside to some degree, but will probably never go away.  http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-your-home/interior-painting-problems-paint-blocking-or-sticking-causes (http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-your-home/interior-painting-problems-paint-blocking-or-sticking-causes)
 
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: gjd on May 06, 2013, 08:16:22 am
From the supplied link telling you curing wasn't the cause:
What Causes Paint Blocking, or Sticking?

    Blocking can occur when insufficient time is allowed for the paint to cure before closing doors or windows.
    Using low-quality semi-gloss or gloss paints can also lead to blocking.

BM is good paint.  I'm not sure if this contributes a lot to the sticking issue, but I find that when I paint with exterior paint (beehives and outside window sashes) in my small basement, it takes a long time to dry.  Stuff outside with the same paint dries much faster.  My paint store guy says it's ventilation & vapor pressure or some such because the exterior paint I use (BM) is formulated for outside.  Seemed implausible to me, but the effect is consistent. 
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: hardwood on May 06, 2013, 09:22:03 am
I rub the edges with wax.

Scott
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Jim134 on May 06, 2013, 09:31:37 am
I rub the edges with wax.

Scott

Scott..
Bee Wax  :evil:


                       BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Moots on May 06, 2013, 09:46:27 am
I think it's just a matter of being fully cured.
Nope.  Sounds like somebody doesn’t have much experience with paint. :shock:

Bee Curious, the real problem is a technical paint term called "blocking".  The only way to really prevent this problem is with oil based enamel.  Over time the blocking problems with your latex finish will subside to some degree, but will probably never go away.  http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-your-home/interior-painting-problems-paint-blocking-or-sticking-causes (http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-your-home/interior-painting-problems-paint-blocking-or-sticking-causes)
  


First, obviously it was a typo on my part, I meant, a matter of it NOT being fully cured.  Anyone with the IQ of a small appliance light bulb probably is capable of realizing that is what I meant.

Knowing you're a fart smella, Oops! I mean smart fella!  :-D I'm sure you also realized that ...

:lau: But thanks for coming to the rescue BlueBee...God knows you're an authority on EVERYTHING!  :-D

Now as gjd pointed out, the linked article you supplied states the following...

Sticking doors and windows are often due to a paint adhesion problem called blocking. Paint sticking to itself upon contact is typically caused by paint not drying properly.
What Causes Paint Blocking, or Sticking?

Blocking can occur when insufficient time is allowed for the paint to cure before closing doors or windows
Using low-quality semi-gloss or gloss paints can also lead to blocking


So, help me out...other than your desire to go through life garnering the same attention and admiration as a pimple on someone's rear end, what "exactly" is your problem with my statement?...Trying to blast folks over obvious typos!  Really Blue....Is that what you're been reduced to stooping to?
Sort of funny actually, kind of smacks of desperation.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: danno on May 07, 2013, 08:52:51 am
Hey Moots
Its Fart Smeller and  Smart Feller.   Sorry carry on.  This is getting good
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Moots on May 07, 2013, 08:58:21 am
Hey Moots
Its Fart Smeller and  Smart Feller.   Sorry carry on.  This is getting good

Po-tate-o - Po-tat-o  :-D
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: BlueBee on May 07, 2013, 10:28:42 am
I guess if you don’t know beans about paint, you can always join a spelling bee  ;)
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Moots on May 07, 2013, 10:50:21 am
I guess if you don’t know beans about paint, you can always join a spelling bee  ;)

And yet, he continues to grasp at straws....  :-D

How do I just know that Bluebee was the kid that constantly sat around and poked at ant mounds with a stick whenever he wasn't busy throwing rocks at wasp nest. :lau:
Which I guess is pretty normal behavior for most little boys.  However, Blue has managed to never grow up.  Somehow, he still manages to equate pleasure in his life by how much he's able to aggravate and agitate others.  :laugh:

Hate to be the one to break it to you Blue, but you're losing your touch.  Part of being a successful forum instigator, aggravator and all around antagonist is not being so blatantly obvious about what you're trying to do....As they say, you're telegraphing your punches.  :-D
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: danno on May 07, 2013, 11:04:52 am
Bee Curious
I dont paint the top or bottom edges.   The bee's will pretty much seal these edges. 
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Moots on May 07, 2013, 11:15:46 am
Bee Curious
I dont paint the top or bottom edges.   The bee's will pretty much seal these edges. 

Danno,
Thanks for getting us back to the OP.

Bee Curious,
My apologies for hijacking your thread with Blue and his foolishness...

Anyway, I paint both my top and bottom edges and try to allow a few days dry time before stacking them.  As I mentioned, when I do stack them, I stagger them, giving only 4 small contact points.  On occasion when they do stick and possibly pull off some paint, you've still got about 95% coverage that you wouldn't have had otherwise.  Not sure why yours are taking so long to dry, maybe throw a fan in the mix, I'm thinking the increased air movement would have to help.

Good Luck!  :)
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Jim134 on May 07, 2013, 11:49:02 am
 "Painted woodware sticks to other woodware"

Looks like a other reason to keep on using linseed oil. :roll:




                  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Georgia Boy on May 08, 2013, 11:43:55 pm
Or you could just dip them in wax. I think I read that Michael does that.

David
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: capt44 on May 12, 2013, 12:17:21 pm
I use an exterior latex paint on my hive parts.
I usually stack 6 or 8 high and start painting thus not getting any on the top of the boards.
I let it dry and use a hive tool to get them apart which is usually easy.
I don't have much of a problem of them sticking after that other than the propolis.
Title: Re: Painted woodware sticks to other woodware
Post by: Bee Curious on May 12, 2013, 02:50:49 pm
Thank you all for the insights, links to BMoore, and the entertainment.  I have found that the problem is getting better since I put my hive outside.  I like BMoore's suggestion to use talcum powder rather than someone else's suggestion to use Vaseline, as I think talc would not interfere with the paint curing, but Vaseline might end up sealing moisture in the paint film.  I would consider wax if I thought the paint was cured and still sticking. 

I swear this new hobby has so much to learn!  I just got my (very first) bees yesterday.  Now the fun really starts.