Swapping hive bodies

[RZRBCK BEE]

Here is my problem. I have five hives, 3 hives are double deeps which I prefer, and the other 2 hives are 1 deep and 1 medium. The double deeps are hives that I bought new and installed nucs in and the other 2 hives, 1 deep 1 medium, I bought as established hives. I want to change these 2 hives into double deeps and wanted to know the best way to accomplish this as they are really booming and I plan to split them pretty quick which I figure is as good a time as any to make the change to the deeps. The medium frames have brood in them now and eggs and I don't want to disrupt them too much. I thought maybe I should reverse the hive bodies and let them move up into the deeps? Not sure and would like some ideas on the best way to do this. This is my second year so I am not overly experienced. Thanks in advance.

Randy

P.S. I hope this made sense.

[wd]

hmm I see no one has answered your question yet.

Did you figure it out how your self or would you still like to bounce some optional methods?

Yes it makes sense. I understand anyway

I've added a deep to the top with 10 empty frames with and with out feed and no medium, I don't see what difference it make with one. Once the deep on top has 7 frames filled, I'd consider,

leaving the medium in place

getting new queens to create more hives, possibly a medium on the bottom with a deep on top or all mediums.  

moving the medium to the bottom and / or remove it when the bees are ready.

Could also grab 3 to 5 brood frames from the center in the bottom deep, replace with empty's and add those to a deep complete with frames on top.

I'm sure some one else has something too say on this.

[doak]

It is hard to catch a time when the medium will be in a configuration that can be safely rotated with out disrupting the brood cluster. A good brood cluster will usually extend greater than the space in a medium. If that can be understood. sometime I have problems explaining simple things.

What I would do. I would get something to sit the boxes on. Take the top, medium super off, with the lid on.
Sit it on another bottom board, to keep from squashing any bees. Do the same with the bottom, deep box.
Now put a deep with foundation, starter strips, or drawn comb if you have it, or what ever you are using on the bottom board and put the two original boxes on in the order they came off. If your queen goes back down  the bees will fill the medium with honey.

Now the question is, did the person you got the colonies from treat with that medium on? or did you after you got it?

If you could catch it after all the brood is capped, put a new honey super under it, but on top of the two deeps. After brood is capped it needs very little tending. Once the brood hatches remove the super and take out the old wax if you are not sure what chemicals has been used.

All this should give you plenty to do while you are waiting for other things to come into play. :)doak

[RZRBCK BEE]

hmm I see no one has answered your question yet.

Did you figure it out how your self or would you still like to bounce some optional methods?

Yes it makes sense. I understand anyway

I've added a deep to the top with 10 empty frames with and with out feed and no medium, I don't see what difference it make with one. Once the deep on top has 7 frames filled, I'd consider,

leaving the medium in place

getting new queens to create more hives, possibly a medium on the bottom with a deep on top or all mediums.  

moving the medium to the bottom and / or remove it when the bees are ready.

Could also grab 3 to 5 brood frames from the center in the bottom deep, replace with empty's and add those to a deep complete with frames on top.

I'm sure some one else has something too say on this.

I thought about reversing the hive bodies with the medium on the bottom and then add an empty deep on top of the deep that is currently there in hopes that the queen moves up into the 2 deeps and later in the year, hopefully, the medium on the bottom would be empty.

[RZRBCK BEE]

It is hard to catch a time when the medium will be in a configuration that can be safely rotated with out disrupting the brood cluster. a good brood cluster will usually extend greater than the space in a medium. If that can be understood. sometime I have problems explaining simple things.

What I would do. I would get something to sit the boxes on. Take the top, medium super off, with the lid on.
Sit it on another bottom board, to keep from squashing any bees. Do the same with the bottom, deep box.
Now put a deep with foundation, starter strips, or drawn comb if you have it, or what ever you are using on the bottom board and put the two original boxes on in the order they came off. If your queen goes back down  the bees will fill the medium with honey.

Now the question is, did the person you got the colonies from treat with that medium on? or did you after you got it?

If you could catch it after all the brood is capped, put a new honey super under it, but on top of the two deeps. After brood is capped it needs very little tending. Once the brood hatches remove the super and take out the old wax if you are not sure what chemicals has been used.

All this should give you plenty to do while you are waiting for other things to come into play. :)doak

Will the queen go back down for certain? I was under the assumption they preferred to go up and figured it would be easier to get her to move up into 2 deeps and then remove the medium which would be at the bottom after a hive body reversal. I am fairly new to this so I am open to any advice. As to the treating with chemicals I have not treated and do not plan to treat. As for the guy I got them from I know he told me he has been trying not to treat as in, using SBB's and doing sugar shakes etc but can't guarantee that he didn't use a chemical. I want to thank all of you for your help.

[doak]

It is a known fact that the bees move in the direction they have. Why do they move up in our man made configurations. I normally don't use a queen excluder.  My queens don't usually move up into the third box, regardless of size. I mostly run 2 deeps for brood. If I can manage to keep some ready space in the brood area that seems to take care of things.
I will find this year how they do laterally. I have one long hive body ready as soon as the weather permits.
I have a colony ready for it.I will see if they have a problem moving laterally. They seem to do OK in building walls. :)doak

[RZRBCK BEE]

It is a known fact that the bees move in the direction they have. Why do they move up in our man made configurations. I normally don't use a queen excluder.  My queens don't usually move up into the third box, regardless of size. I mostly run 2 deeps for brood. If I can manage to keep some ready space in the brood area that seems to take care of things.
I will find this year how they do laterally. I have one long hive body ready as soon as the weather permits.
I have a colony ready for it.I will see if they have a problem moving laterally. They seem to do OK in building walls. :)doak

When you say long hive body are you referring to a TBH?

[wd]

I see what you mean, not much difference other than the medium box being in a different location from the get go. I look at that as a form of checker boarding,

http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/walt-wright/

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236233&referrerid=72766

I'd leave the medium in place, add to the top and wait and watch what they do. If you don't want the queen to move down just yet, a queen excluder could be handy. if wanted.. rotate the medium out like one would with any wax when you can.  I've used queen excluders for various reasons.

[doak]

Rather than having two boxes, one on top of the other, I have built a single box that hold 20 deep frames.
I will be running one 8 and one 10 frame medium box on top of this. If I want to I can place a queen excluder over the brood nest and still leave space for the worker bees to go up where there is no excluder.
I have my tops made so I can put one super at the time on and switch sides if need be. :)doak

[hardwood]

Place an excluder between the deep and medium, wait 'til the brood in the medium emerges and replace the medium with a deep.

Scott

[RZRBCK BEE]

Place an excluder between the deep and medium, wait 'til the brood in the medium emerges and replace the medium with a deep.

Scott

I had just thought of this idea and posted it on another forum. Maybe finally I am starting to think right and might even be learning a few things. Thanks. You guys are great. Love these forums.

[wd]

If you don't mind, let us know what you did and how it works out...

[RZRBCK BEE]

If you don't mind, let us know what you did and how it works out...

No problem if it works. LOL. May not want to update if I screw it up bad.

[greenbtree]

Nah, if you screw up bad you need to post so that the rest of us newbees can learn from it.  A mistake is only a total disaster if now one learns anything. :-D

[RZRBCK BEE]

Okay here is my update. My original configuration of both hives was 1 deep on the bottom and 2 mediums on top. Top mediums were put on for honey supers and had honey in them going into winter but I left them for the girls. After busting them apart today I couldn't find the queen in either hive but was in a hurry because it was late in the day and fairly windy. First hive I found the deep was mostly empty and the brood cells, larvae, and pollen were in the middle medium. Remember this is the medium I eventually want to replace with a deep. So I reversed this middle medium to the bottom and put the deep on top of it and then put the top medium back on top where it was. Now to the second hive. This is where I was baffled. The deep was empty and the brood cells, larvae and pollen were in both of these mediums. So now I have 2 mediums instead of 1 that are brood boxes in this hive. Not exactly what I wanted. Not sure what to do but I put the 2 mediums to the bottom and the deep on the top. I feel both of these hives are in great shape because I found plenty of bees, brood, larvae, pollen, and some honey in the frames, mostly to the outside of the frames where the brood is. Hope that is ok. Was also surprised to find as much pollen as I did but the pollen levels are high here right now and saw plenty of bees with pollen on their legs. Found decent numbers of drone cells also. Bees were not happy and got stung several times in this process. As I said it was fairly windy but the temps were in the upper 60's and we have had rain lately and it was clear and sunny but we are fixing to get more rain and storms tomorrow so I thought now was the time to jump in. I'm hoping I did the right thing. What do ya'll think?

[wd]

Thanks for the update, one concern I would have would be the change in temperature for the brood, with just about anything one dose, that will happen ... as I understand it, what hardwood suggested wouldn't have changed the internal temp too much but it does confine the queen to limited space if she's included.

if interested, thought I'd include a link to local beekeeper associations in Arkansas.
http://arbeekeepers.org/local.htm

Time will tell eh? Let us know how they do.



 

[RZRBCK BEE]

If you don't mind, let us know what you did and how it works out...

Here is an update. I was kind of worried after I found that they were storing nectar in the deep and I mean a lot of it. After opening the hives up today I was surprised and happy to see most of the deep was now brood and larvae. I want to thank all of you for your advice.