Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS => Topic started by: mjdtexan on October 16, 2010, 07:58:06 pm
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Ok, I purchased a bunch of 1" pine today. I got from 8" wide to 15" wide. I know that I would like to start out with a Langstroth type of hive to begin with. Another hive interest me but I want to start out with a standardized type of hive to learn on. That still leaves a lot of options. I have noticed some of the older beeks here mention that 10 frame deep supers are hard on them. I am in good shape but I am 42 and despite myself I continue to get older. I have noticed that most seem to use a deep brood and then use all mediums. I have seen a couple of yall mention they use a medium brood though in order to keep all their equipment interchangeable. So, I was wondering from those of yall who use a medium brood chamber how it is working for you. I am ready to build and bee prepared for Spring but I want to have a good system to work with.
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I know you will get a lot of feed back on the meds, but don't forget you can go with an 8 frame deep hive also to cut weight. But for me I own just one medium super box. I run deeps and shallows just to keep everything the same. I am slow I guess.
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I use all medium equipment and it has been working well for me. Being able to move a frame to any box is handy and it is less planning with regards to making sure I have enough frames assembled.
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All mediums is the way to go IMO. Just have to use 3 brood boxes to equal (roughly) 2 deeps. No worries though. I have 8 hives worth of 10 frame medium equipment. When I expand my apiary more, I am going to go with 8 frame mediums. My back is not good. Mediums help a lot in lifting even though swinging 25 full honey supers around in the fall is tiring. Not to mention those end frames never seem to get filled out all the way.
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KTBH
and Be Done with it :mrgreen:
OK I am new, but my Plans from reading here and others places
is
All Mediums = one set pattern, all things equal and no mismatched Pieces
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Just remember for all who treat their hives for all sort of bugs that we have now with all approved (and unapproved) products. When they say treat with honey supers off, they mean not to use the brood frames just recently treated for honey frames to be harvested in the future. Deeps will always bee broods in my yards. Supers will never be treated.
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Just remember for all who treat their hives for all sort of bugs that we have now with all approved (and unapproved) products. When they say treat with honey supers off, they mean not to use the brood frames just recently treated for honey frames to be harvested in the future. Deeps will always bee broods in my yards. Supers will never be treated.
This is a good point that allen points out. The all medium equipment gives you many options. Just make sure if you do treat that your supers are marked or painted to keep them as such.
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Sum use all deeps.
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
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Thank All of Yall for the answers. That is a good point about keeping the brood frames all seperate.
Now that we are on the brood frame subject I cant find where I was reading about that certain mite that seems to be attracted to bees raised on a certain size cell foundation or something like that. I cant remember where I read that but it was in the last couple of days. I think I will build some mediums tomorrow and then we will discuss what I am going to do about frames. Frames might be better off bought?
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Sparky beat me to the treatment issue. I thought about going to all mediums but then how would I keep my treated and untreated boxes separate.
That said, as new as I am to beekeeping, I have wished more than once I had all the same size frames. If I were to go all mediums I would paint all brood boxes one color and supers another then brand all brood frames with a B.
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I am also standardized, all broods are deeps and all supers are mediums and all hives will be double brood chambers because I plan on concentrating on producing more bees then honey.
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I recently (the last ten years) converted to all mediums and then to all eight frame boxes. I have never regretted the decision. I have very few deeps left and very few ten frame boxes left.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize (http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize)
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Thank All of Yall for the responses. Its been most helpful
I recently (the last ten years) converted to all mediums and then to all eight frame boxes. I have never regretted the decision. I have very few deeps left and very few ten frame boxes left.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize (http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize)
Michael, thats where I first read about the all mediums in the first place. I've been up and down yours and a couple other websites reading the last couple of days
Michael
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I recently (the last ten years) converted to all mediums and then to all eight frame boxes. I have never regretted the decision. I have very few deeps left and very few ten frame boxes left.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize (http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize)
I perfer double deeps for brood and all meds for honey, my deeps are 10 frame but I leave the division board feeders in year round leaving 8 frames evenly spaced. I find it keeps the deeps light enough to easily handle yet I have to extra capacity for honey production using 10 frame med supers above plus I didn't have to go to the expence of reworking and buying new woodenware to switch to 8 frame.
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I recently (the last ten years) converted to all mediums and then to all eight frame boxes. I have never regretted the decision. I have very few deeps left and very few ten frame boxes left.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize (http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize)
I perfer double deeps for brood and all meds for honey, my deeps are 10 frame but I leave the division board feeders in year round leaving 8 frames evenly spaced. I find it keeps the deeps light enough to easily handle yet I have to extra capacity for honey production using 10 frame med supers above plus I didn't have to go to the expence of reworking and buying new woodenware to switch to 8 frame.
Hey, I know this is off subject but I used to live where you are now. In fact I used to work for that city. Shoot, that was 20 years ago. I bet it looks different now. I actually stayed in Clinton and worked for the City of Jackson.
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the classic set up in the south for a hive is one deep (brood chamber) and one illinois depth super (food chamber).
I have hives set up like the above plus some that are three illinois depth boxes plus some that are set up as three shallow depth boxes. beyond the sheer number of frames per hive (<there is an economic implication here) I can't see anything much different in how these hives perform. a lot of folks devalue deep boxes due to weight but since these are setting at the bottom of the stack and are rarely moved I don't totally agree with the point of their objection. for folks that are older (which now includes myself) or have disabilities the mediums or shallows are much more manageable when you do need to heft or move them. frame standardization might be important if you made up lots of nucs, but there are likely as much downside to going all one way as to having a diversity of frame sizes.
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Most of my hives are all mediums but I have a couple that are in the deep/shallow configuration. The only complaint I have with running all mediums is that it burns through equipment. It roughly takes 2 medium boxes with 20 frames and foundation (if you use it) to equal 1 deep with 10 frames. So you may have to decide if the extra expense and labor of putting more frames and hive bodies together are worth it. As far as weight goes anyways, a shallow super is going to weigh less than a full medium. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
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I thank all of yall for your views on the subject. I think what I shall do for my first go around is build two sets of hives for this Spring. I am going to go ahead and do deep broods and medium supers. I will build two mediums for each set to get me started. If I am reading right the first year is not really a honey harvest year? :?
I have to tell you that all the choices there are on the foundation thing have me a bit confused as to what I really need. You got wired, not wired, wire them yourself options, plastic and I think there is even some differences in cell size.
The hive that interest me is a long hive. I am still not understanding if yall use complete brood and honey type frames all the way down the length or are yall letting them draw out their own frame? :mrgreen:
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The first year, there will not be a honey harvest if starting from packages in all new gear. Sounds like you are on the right track.
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I just built a long hive. Had I started with a long hive, I would probably have gone with deep frames instead of all medium. I plan on managing it like a regular 3 box hive and stacking supers in the rear of the hive if they make me lots of honey. When expanding the broodnest, you want to add empty frames in to the broodnest. For a vertical hive, you do the same, but expand in to new boxes starting with the center.
I let the bees draw their own comb. It's cheaper and less work assembling frames. They sometimes build comb that isn't straight on the frame, but it's easily corrected if caught early. It's also less frequent once you have already drawn frames to use as guides. They'll make cells the size that they need and it's interesting to see different cell sizes on the same frame.
Wiring frames is helpful if you plan on using a radial extractor; the comb is less likely to collapse. I crush & strain and the few wired frames I had were really annoying in the process.
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My brood boxes are all deeps. They do get heavy and I have a hard time inspecting later in summer. I get around this by having a spare deep with me in the apiary. If I need to separate my boxes, I move some of the frames into the spare to lighten the box. Takes a bit more time, but helpful. And it's never a bad idea to have a spare around, for whatever reason!
As for foundation, I'm with you, so many choices! Personally, I use Duragilt. Straight forward, not a lot of fuss, easy to replace when needed. When I have a dedicated work space that does not involve the kitchen table or sharing space with garden tools, I'd like to try wiring wax foundation. But that's more because I'd like to know how to do it than because I might use it permanently. For every beek, there's a way..... :)
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mjd writes:
If I am reading right the first year is not really a honey harvest year?
tecumsh:
I have a nuc customer in Houston that inform me that he has taken just a bit of honey in year one. I suspect at least one other customer could have taken considerable more. I usually suggest they take a taste as a reward for their effort, but don't take too much in year one.
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I didnt realize you sold nucs. Is that customer going to drive back out for more bees this spring? Maybe I could send money and work something out with him to halve his fuel cost or something? Maybe ride with him, or not. I am assuming you like to be prepaid.
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Manfre,
I'm doing much the same in Chapel Hill/Carrboro. I build long hives that take deep foundationless Lang frames (32) and Lang migratory tops (3). Turns out using deeps for honey and brood is no problem when you only have to pick up one at a time. :-D Getting the no-lifting benefits of a TBH plus the bee space maintenance of a Lang. Plus I've been stunned at how easy inspection is, not having to disturb any but the frames I want to inspect. I wouldn't use them for a mobile operation though - unwieldy to move when full and they have a big footprint. This is the first year with them, so we'll see how well they overwinter and expand in the spring.
If you'd like to swap more details, PM me.
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Manfre,
I'm doing much the same in Chapel Hill/Carrboro. I build long hives that take deep foundationless Lang frames (32) and Lang migratory tops (3). Turns out using deeps for honey and brood is no problem when you only have to pick up one at a time. :-D Getting the no-lifting benefits of a TBH plus the bee space maintenance of a Lang. Plus I've been stunned at how easy inspection is, not having to disturb any but the frames I want to inspect. I wouldn't use them for a mobile operation though - unwieldy to move when full and they have a big footprint. This is the first year with them, so we'll see how well they overwinter and expand in the spring.
If you'd like to swap more details, PM me.
It would be cool to see a picture of that hive. :mrgreen: