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Author Topic: Monsanto  (Read 15016 times)

Offline flyboy

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2016, 05:44:36 pm »
You understand I am/was a lawyer?  I've never been in the legal field in any way shape or form.  Complete nonsense like much of what you claim.  You have no way of knowing if I did or didn't read the link you posted.  If I found an MIT grad that claimed the moon was made of cheese would you automatically believe it?  They are after all an MIT grad and couldn't possibly have a biased agenda (sarcasm intended)

Thank you for making my point very clearly.  Cheers. :wink:
Oops, made a mistake. Thought I had read that in a prior post. So you are saying that you read the science that SS posted on her site. Great and what part did you specifically disagree with?
Cheers
Al
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Offline PhilK

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2016, 06:26:49 pm »
D Coates I might love you. I can't stand all this jumping up and down about EEEVVIILLLL corporations who are destroying the world. They've made crazy advances in their fields, GMO foods are (for the most part, before you start quoting specific examples) totally fine by my book - that's humans being humans (and it's pretty cool).

Fact is glyphosate has never been proven repeatedly and beyond doubt to be harmful. Some studies say yes, some say no. Yes, if you drink a bottle of the stuff you die, yes it can probably increase the risk of certain cancers at certain concentrations (much like pretty much anything else in your life, including but not limited to alcohol, air pollution, sunburn, cured and smoked meats such as ham and bacon) but who cares? If you aren't a teetotalling vegetarian that never goes in the sun you obviously don't care about increased risks of cancer, so stop jumping up and down about whether or not glyphosate might be harmful just because Monsanto makes it.

Offline D Coates

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2016, 06:32:02 pm »
Plural, you've made many assumptions and mistakes of me so far. 

Though I have a college degree I've watched enough of the video link to realize I am simply not educated enough in what she's talking about to understand her.  I am not going to assume she's correct nor incorrect.  In the field I am in I could throw all kinds of jargon about that would leave all but those in this industry scratching their heads too.  However, there are plenty of lawyers who do understand her language and if she's got something plausible enough to believe they have a snowballs chance in hades they'd roll the dice to try to take a big bite out of Monsanto.  They don't.  Actions speak louder than words here.

What is your educational background that you can understand exactly what she's talking about?  Or, is it that she's saying what you want to hear/believe but you have no idea if what she's saying is true?  Being an MIT grad is final card played to support her credibility.  No one from MIT could be biased or a cracked pot?  Seriously..., ask yourself these questions.

PhilK, I was in Brisbane about 6 weeks ago flying back to the states.  Had some 4X, Brisbane Bitter and brought some Tim tams back for the kids.

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...

Offline gww

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2016, 08:30:17 pm »
I don't know about the good or bad of thier products and I do use roundup if I feel like it.  I do however believe that the genetic stuff being patented and then polinating another crop that used differrent seed is none of their buisness

So to my mind it pays to be leary of any inity that is profit motivated from isulation companys that sold asbestas to baby powder companies to the guy down the street that said he got the car from a little old lady from passadina.   They have the money to try and prove it is their profit and not yours and just because they end up bing wrong, they won't go to jail so the incentive is there.

So the point was made that monsanto has money and if anybody found a way they would try to get it,  I say the same thing motivates monsanto and I am glad that they get watched but I am using thier products at this time.
Cheers
gww

Offline flyboy

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2016, 11:18:11 am »
My point is that I would like the PPL who choose to know, to be aware of the science regarding glyphosphate. If someone chooses to consume products which contain it, like the first poster showed, then great, we all pick our poison.

I (and my daughters and their children) ditched those manufactured foods long ago anyways, as well as cut back substantially on my bread consumption for a couple of reasons. One was that I was starting to lose sight of my toes  :cheesy: and the other is that farmers apparently use glyphosphate to kill the wheat so they can harvest it on a schedule in chosen weather. I say great, good luck to them, but I ain't buyin their product so good luck to those who do. It's better for the pension system if there are less subscribers after those same rascals in government that gamed the corporate world also stole from the pension system.

I think it's amusing that PPL feel they have a right to force others what to eat and believe that labeling of whats in food is a sin. Again I say good luck to 'em as I do my best to grow my own food and therefore limit my garbage intake.
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline D Coates

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2016, 12:20:36 pm »
So what you're saying is you don't actually understand science of the link you're promoting as proof of the evils of glyphosate?  You have no idea if what she's saying is actually true but you're promoting it as proof?  Do you see the flaw here?

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...

Offline flyboy

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2016, 01:53:20 pm »
So what you're saying is you don't actually understand science of the link you're promoting as proof of the evils of glyphosate?  You have no idea if what she's saying is actually true but you're promoting it as proof?  Do you see the flaw here?
Again I suggest that ya' actually read it my friend. Even if you don't understand every word you get the jist of it. Then you can choose.

As I said, I ain't selling anything, just being the messenger and you know it's not a wise thing to shoot the messenger.
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline D Coates

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2016, 04:01:51 pm »
Again I suggest that ya' actually read it my friend. Even if you don't understand every word you get the jist of it. Then you can choose.

As I said, I ain't selling anything, just being the messenger and you know it's not a wise thing to shoot the messenger.

I completely disagree that you're not trying to sell something.  You're selling this a proof of your position though you yourself don't even understand if it's real.  There could be (and invariably is) one thing that's being left out or ignored that allows her to make these claims that supports her agenda.  This makes this whole thing garbage.  But, the ill informed will tout her claims as proof and using her MIT degree as proof of her credentials. 

However, what I do understand that those who do live in this language apparently aren't buying it as there's no class action lawsuit.  She makes it sound so simple yet clearly it isn't otherwise it'd be in the courts.  Ignore that fact all you wish but, layers love class action suits against huge companies.  There's clearly something floating in your punchbowl of proof.

There's nothing to read, it's a video and I've seen enough to know I don't know the terms she's using, if they are being used correctly, and if what she is claiming is even plausible.  Apparently you don't know any of this either but are willing to accept it because it supports your position.  Even if something supports my position unless I understand it I won't quote it.  Quoting something as "proof" when you don't understand it seems highly hypocritical and a great way to get used as a parrot to carry someone else's water.
Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...

Offline flyboy

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2016, 07:25:42 pm »
Bck on post # 13 I gave her website. Here 'tis:

 https://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline PhilK

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2016, 06:18:40 pm »
... farmers apparently use glyphosphate to kill the wheat so they can harvest it on a schedule in chosen weather.
What do you mean by 'apparently'? Who told you this? Why do you believe it?

That sounds like absolute crap to me. Using glyphosate would in no way, shape, or form make a crop ready to harvest. Farmers plant their crops knowing how long it will take for them to ripen and knowing when they want to harvest. If you poisoned an avocado tree that had half ripe fruits, do you think you could harvest and eat those fruits? No. Same goes for wheat. Also, do you think farmers repeatedly spraying their crop fields with plant killing chemicals is a smart way to ensure they can grow crops the next season..?

Sounds like another instance where a little common sense and being skeptical of what you have heard or read could really help.

PhilK, I was in Brisbane about 6 weeks ago flying back to the states.  Had some 4X, Brisbane Bitter and brought some Tim tams back for the kids.
Hope you enjoyed it mate! I live about 2 minutes form the XXXX brewery. Was it hot while you were here? It's been stinking hot recently!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2016, 06:34:11 pm by PhilK »

Offline PhilK

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2016, 07:05:45 pm »
Bck on post # 13 I gave her website. Here 'tis:

 https://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/
This is a goldmine, have you looked at who is funding her talks and papers?

'Seeds of Truth' are one of her biggest sponsors judging by your link, and they don't even have a website, just a Facebook page. They quote no credible sources, are militantly against 'big corporations' and wax lyrical about harmful vaccines causing autism.. so it's safe to say we can discredit them immediately.

'Kokua Market' is another sponsor in part. They are a whole foods store in Hawaii, not a scientific or higher education facility. Reckon they might have something to gain by supporting her anti-glyphosate agenda...?

'Green Formosa Front' and 'HaoRan Foundation' don't seem quite so crazy, but are very green-leaning Taiwanese organisations who also clearly have an agenda in supporting anti-Monsanto views.

In fact, a few of her talks are about vaccines leading to autism... this is a subject for another day, but essentially came from a fraudulent study years ago, has never been proven since, and has been disproved time and time again by science. She also seems to think glyphosate causes autism, which I have not managed to find evidence of in any other scientific literature. The fact she is supporting a very clearly false idea in this regard shows that even people form MIT can be crackpots.

Earlier the issue of scientific papers being backed by 'big corporations' was brought up. This does happen in the scientific world unfortunately - people will pay scientists to conduct research to find the answers they want to get. Yes, it's very true that if a paper is funded by Monsanto it's likely to be a source of biased information.. but the same goes for the other way. If her supporters are a bunch of anti-vax greeny crackpots then it is likely she is a biased source of information. Another reason we need to remain skeptical of what we read, and look into things a little deeper. Seeing who funded the paper is always a dead give away in whether you can trust it.

Offline flyboy

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2016, 07:41:04 pm »
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline flyboy

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2016, 07:42:59 pm »
Bck on post # 13 I gave her website. Here 'tis:

 https://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/
This is a goldmine, have you looked at who is funding her talks and papers?

'Seeds of Truth' are one of her biggest sponsors judging by your link, and they don't even have a website, just a Facebook page. They quote no credible sources, are militantly against 'big corporations' and wax lyrical about harmful vaccines causing autism.. so it's safe to say we can discredit them immediately.

'Kokua Market' is another sponsor in part. They are a whole foods store in Hawaii, not a scientific or higher education facility. Reckon they might have something to gain by supporting her anti-glyphosate agenda...?

'Green Formosa Front' and 'HaoRan Foundation' don't seem quite so crazy, but are very green-leaning Taiwanese organisations who also clearly have an agenda in supporting anti-Monsanto views.

In fact, a few of her talks are about vaccines leading to autism... this is a subject for another day, but essentially came from a fraudulent study years ago, has never been proven since, and has been disproved time and time again by science. She also seems to think glyphosate causes autism, which I have not managed to find evidence of in any other scientific literature. The fact she is supporting a very clearly false idea in this regard shows that even people form MIT can be crackpots.

Earlier the issue of scientific papers being backed by 'big corporations' was brought up. This does happen in the scientific world unfortunately - people will pay scientists to conduct research to find the answers they want to get. Yes, it's very true that if a paper is funded by Monsanto it's likely to be a source of biased information.. but the same goes for the other way. If her supporters are a bunch of anti-vax greeny crackpots then it is likely she is a biased source of information. Another reason we need to remain skeptical of what we read, and look into things a little deeper. Seeing who funded the paper is always a dead give away in whether you can trust it.

So you also have not elected to read the research, just jump to conclusions. Have fun.
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline PhilK

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2016, 08:14:35 pm »
Flyboy, thanks for that link - I had no idea that was a practice in use. That seems crazy to me, but I'm certainly no farmer.

As for the rest of it, I won't waste my time reading research that is clearly biased, not to mention written by a 'scientist' who believes in the anti-vaccination movement. As I said, I'm not claiming glyphosate is entirely safe, but I also don't believe it to be the monstrous chemical that people jump up and down about.

I believe this thread will serve to any others reading it as encouragement to dig deeper, and not take things at face value. Scientific literature is fantastic but not without its biases either way, and that needs to be scrutinised whenever we view it. Unfortunately reviewing scientific literature is not a skill taught to most, unless you're in a scientific field, so a lot of people just tend to believe whatever they read, no matter who wrote it or where they read it.

I'm sure I could find you lots of 'evidence' that the world is flat if I was to search for it.

Offline flyboy

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2016, 08:19:07 pm »
World isn't flat. I'm a commercial pilot and I have seen the curvature. LOL

I know what you are saying and I get it.

BTW One of my grandsons was injured by a vaccine. One if his eyes turned inward, which is exactly what Dr. Moulton a Canadian Doctor warned about. But I am not entering into that clearly unwinnable war. My daughters are risking more vaccines tho.
Cheers
Al
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2016, 11:20:27 pm »
"Scientific literature is fantastic..."

Yes.  Literally...

"The bulk of the world?s knowledge is an imaginary construction."--Helen Keller
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Offline PhilK

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2016, 05:37:48 pm »
My daughters are risking more vaccines tho.
Now I really wish I had the eye rolling emoji.. I certainly hope they get those vaccines. Only people in a first world country would ever start imagining that vaccines were evil. I'm sure there are millions of people around the world hoping against hope that they could be in a position to "risk" getting a vaccination.
"Scientific literature is fantastic..."

Yes.  Literally...
Only if you're referring to the "extraordinarily good" definition of the word. You can't possibly think all scientific literature is made up or imagined, and if you do think that there is no point in ever trying to discuss otherwise. Helen Keller was certainly very wrong on that one.. she really thinks that the majority of the world's knowledge is just made up?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2016, 08:07:12 am »
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesscientificstudies.htm

We all have our limited models of the world.  The scientific method is a very limited, but useful model.  I can't tell you how many things have been proven and then disproven in my life.  Things that were good for you, bad for you, good for you.  In reality everything in the universe is connected to everything else, but in order to manage that and solve problems we create models that are limited to what we believe are the important issues and we manipulate things within that model until we hit its limits.  When we do, we either discard that model and build a new one or we can't solve the next problem.  None of those models are reality.  They are simplified stripped down versions of reality that we construct with our imaginations.  As E.P. Box pointed out, they are always wrong, but sometimes they are useful.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
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Offline flyboy

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2016, 10:51:09 pm »
My daughters are risking more vaccines tho.
Now I really wish I had the eye rolling emoji.. I certainly hope they get those vaccines. Only people in a first world country would ever start imagining that vaccines were evil. I'm sure there are millions of people around the world hoping against hope that they could be in a position to "risk" getting a vaccination.
"Scientific literature is fantastic..."

Yes.  Literally...
Only if you're referring to the "extraordinarily good" definition of the word. You can't possibly think all scientific literature is made up or imagined, and if you do think that there is no point in ever trying to discuss otherwise. Helen Keller was certainly very wrong on that one.. she really thinks that the majority of the world's knowledge is just made up?
Sorry I didn't notice my typo. I meant to say that they are not risking any more vaccines.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I know of three PPL close to me who have had serious vaccine problems;

1. my daughter whose son had his eye turn and required a very painful operation which he had to be awake for in which the Drs did some unbelievably cruel things to "straighten" the eye out. His screaming for a considerable period of time was the main clincher.

2. The son of a workmate of mine was autistic within a short period of time of receiving the "jab".

3. A close relative who interestingly enough is a Yale and Harvard grad MD (top of the class) with 2 specialties who used to roll his eyes at my warnings about vaccines for the same reasons given above. (Websites seemed to be not dignified. You know, those pesky ads) One of his children went into a coma  within hours of the "jab" and was out for a couple of days. The child is also very slow in learning to speak and seems to be a bit slow generally. I believe their other child also had issues coming from it's "jab" but they weren't quite as obvious.

You can believe whatever you like, but I say that the vaccine schedule of nowadays is criminal. They give vaccines for ridiculous things and pack a large # of them together in one shot. Some of the things they give vaccines for are absurd, like sexual transmitted diseases that you might find on the streets of Mumbai. Like a 2 year old is going to have sex.

The movie "Vaxxed" is all about a whistleblower at the CDC who participated in a cover-up of the results of some vaccine studies. This guy's conscience bothered him so much that after 15 years, he blew the whistle on the results that showed amongst other things that the rates of autism were about double in the black male population. He and his coworkers had falsified their results so as to show there was no problems with the "jab". He had covertly kept a copy of the "real" results.

The crazy part is that even tho he blew the whistle, he can only have the matter examined if he is asked by Congress to testify. So all those wise and honest individuals must ask him to come forward to testify.

I heard that Trump and his wife are aware of the movie and met with the author, so we may see some results on that front, unless the rascals that tried to keep him out by various means at their disposal, manage to do him in.

Everything that I have heard is that there is way too much vaccines, way too soon. In other words they are using too many different vaccines altogether, given to children whose immune systems are not capable of handling them because they are too young. The really bizarre part is that the vaccines have never been tested/studied on children, as it is not legal or ethical to test drugs on children. So the dose is an adult dose, which they are giving to a child 1/10 to 1/30 the size of an adult.

The pseudoscience involved in this is astounding. It's basically "eeny meenie miny mo".

The bottom line is that the vaccine schedule is a goldmine to Pediatricians because if there was no 'Vaccine Schedule' parents would have no reason to bring little Johnny and Suzie to see the pediatrician.

Of course the vaccine business is practically the only major money maker for the drug companies now that antibiotics are being frowned upon due to MRSA and no new ones are being developed. You can be certain that vaccines will be coming out for everything and anything.
Cheers
Al
First packages - 2 queens and bees May 17 2014 - doing well

Offline D Coates

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Re: Monsanto
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2016, 05:25:58 pm »
Of course the vaccine business is practically the only major money maker for the drug companies now that antibiotics are being frowned upon due to MRSA and no new ones are being developed. You can be certain that vaccines will be coming out for everything and anything.

Prove that statement.  You can't help tripping over yourself can you?  So I find an MIT grad that says you should be getting vaccines you're going to change your position because they're an MIT grad?  You apparently understand this even less than the Roundup info you were posting as "facts."  You're willing to assume it's big Pharma and their "jab" just trying to make money because it fits your world view.  The Polio vaccine shows up and Polio disappears, is that a big Pharma conspiracy?  All of the vaccinations are just a money making conspiracy by big Pharma and big Medical?  Are you saying Canada's single payer healthcare system is in on this too?  Just like it appears you're assuming, Roundup is big Ag only trying to make money selling deadly chemicals?  In your mind it appears it's always some evil company that out to do harm that's why "Monsanto" appears to be such a hot button for you.

This reminds me of some protesters I ran across this weekend while enjoying the Plaza lighting ceremony in Kansas City.  They were chanting all types of , pro-green, socialist/communist, anti-capitalist, anti election results slogans while carrying a Soviet flag.  I at least had a good discussion of the evils of communism and socialism with my children (they're vaccinated, ...and doing fine).  The last chant they had was "By any means necessary."  Let that sink in.  They'd be willing to do ANYTHING to get their vision (destruction of "evil" corporations, capitalism, internal combustion engines, election results, redistribution of wealth, seizing of personal property, etc.) of "social justice" enacted no matter the logic and following loss of life that must ignored.  Gulags anyone?  We'd be living in mud huts if they had their way.  Once I finished listening to their ignorant half baked messages, I chuckled at the fools I went on my merry way and enjoyed capitalism at it's finest.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 06:28:03 pm by D Coates »
Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...

 

anything