Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => EQUIPMENT USAGE, EXPERIMENTATION, HIVE PLANS, CONSTRUCTION TIPS AND TOOLS => Topic started by: David LaFerney on February 24, 2009, 01:05:54 pm

Title: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: David LaFerney on February 24, 2009, 01:05:54 pm
I've been building my wooden ware for my first try at beekeeping and I'm wondering how uptight I need to be about how everything fits together.  I know that the bees will propolise everything together eventually and seal up all the cracks.  How big can the cracks be before they are a problem?  Will they glue it together so well that they would be really hard to get apart if there is a crack for them to get it into, or am I just worrying too much?  Is a 1/6" like this OK?

(http://doorgarden.com/images/bees/hive-body-detail(2).JPG)
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: annette on February 24, 2009, 02:32:55 pm
I'll let the more experienced woodworkers offer their opinion, but I have had some boxes that looked like that and once they get filled up with frames and honey, and bees,  etc. they just sit down tighter. Also once you place the top on that pushes everything down more.

The supers are always stuck together about the same as I can remember and never a problem in unsticking them with the hive tool.

I think you don't have to worry about it.

Maybe more water can seep into them, not sure. I don't have any problems with irregular hive parts. As long as the bees can't fit through them.
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: iddee on February 24, 2009, 02:38:24 pm
1/8th inch is fine. 3/16th inch is unacceptable.

I don't know where you would draw the line between those two measurements.
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: gmcharlie on February 24, 2009, 02:42:02 pm
looks like a good crack for a hive tool to me!
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: Kathyp on February 24, 2009, 03:02:22 pm
i have some old boxes that have some pretty good dings out of them.  the bees just use them as another entrance in the summer and close them up in the winter.  the only problem is that when you move the boxes, the bees appreciate it if you get the cracks back in the same spot!  :-)
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: rphillips1 on February 24, 2009, 04:01:43 pm
nice dovetail work David. Just keep in mind when ur making ur boxes if 1 corner fits tighter than the others it will slightly twist the box outta shape-
and when u stack the boxes it will show gaps between them. But don't worry about getting ur boxes to fit seamless you'll tear ur boxes up trying to
separate them with the hive tool.   GOOD LUCK! --hawk
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: David LaFerney on February 24, 2009, 04:43:44 pm
looks like a good crack for a hive tool to me!

Yeah! That's what I was hoping to hear.  Thanks everybody.
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: Michael Bush on February 24, 2009, 09:49:46 pm
Anything over an inch is too much.  ;)
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: Scadsobees on February 24, 2009, 11:01:53 pm
Anything over an inch is too much.  ;)

Oh...I thought that anything over an inch was a "top entrance"!  :-D
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: riverrat on February 25, 2009, 10:10:52 am
If the bees dont like the gap they will close it up with propolis quicker than you can stick a hive tool in to pry it apart. :-D
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: SlickMick on February 25, 2009, 05:38:55 pm
The thing that would worry me about leaving a gap of more than a couple of mm is the access that the gap would give to SHB
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: dhood on February 25, 2009, 07:00:56 pm
If you ever move those hives just remember to bring duct tape ;)
SHB will get in anyways if the hive dosn't control them, I wouldn't worry about that much.
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: slaphead on February 25, 2009, 08:52:28 pm
Hurray!  I'd been worrying about this too.

Thanks,

SH
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: doak on February 25, 2009, 09:56:14 pm
I just take a piece of old news paper and fold several times about an inch wide, length of the crack.
That crack doesn't look that large to me. :)doak
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: toolmaster on February 27, 2009, 09:25:10 pm
just use a hand plane or sand paper on the other sides to shorten the up a wee bit

Toolmaster
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: jimmy on March 02, 2009, 05:13:30 pm
You migh be a redneck if,   :)   .I had this problem with some boxes I made,just duck taped them until the bees seal it up.They didn't seem to mind ,but they maybe rednecks to.   :-D
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: Two Bees on March 02, 2009, 07:05:15 pm
Isn't it amazing how we worry about some of the character imperfections in our woodenware when bees are just as happy to use an old tree trunk or the attic or crawl space in our houses!!

I don't know how they survived 65 million years without us!
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: David LaFerney on March 02, 2009, 10:12:43 pm
Isn't it amazing how we worry about some of the character imperfections in our woodenware when bees are just as happy to use an old tree trunk or the attic or crawl space in our houses!!

I don't know how they survived 65 million years without us!


True, but I wasn't concerned about the bees.  I was, picturing having a heck of a time prying the boxes apart only to have them part with a loud pop followed by an ominous buzzing sound.  After thinking about it I'm betting that if I use some water based poly on the edges they won't stick much at all to that slippery stuff.  Then again you probably want them to stick a bit so they don't blow over.  My dilemma see?  Just first time jitters.
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: gmcharlie on March 03, 2009, 10:19:48 am
The pops and difficulty getting them apart are just part of it,  while bees arn't pleased with the pops and groans,  they are not going to band together and jump you.......   just after you pop the box  insert your smoker and squirt a few times.   let it down if you worried for 5-10 seconds and then finish opening it.....  personaly I never bother... I am used to bees in the air.....  but I see that some or bothered by that......
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: TwT on March 03, 2009, 12:20:14 pm
just use a hand plane or sand paper on the other sides to shorten the up a wee bit

Toolmaster

same here
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: Robo on March 03, 2009, 12:43:30 pm
They will be fine.   Looks like you need to do a little adjustment on your jig so you won't have to worry about it in the future.  I took advantage of some crappy weather this weekend to make some supers as well.
http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/building-honey-supers/
(http://www.bushkillfarms.com/photos/d/1618-2/IMG_2318.jpg)
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: David LaFerney on March 03, 2009, 01:31:14 pm
They will be fine.   Looks like you need to do a little adjustment on your jig so you won't have to worry about it in the future.  I took advantage of some crappy weather this weekend to make some supers as well.
http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/building-honey-supers/
(http://www.bushkillfarms.com/photos/d/1618-2/IMG_2318.jpg)

Yeah, I don't use it enough to be very proficient in getting it set up just right.  Pretty cool site you have there though.  How about some explanation about how you cut your hand holds?
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: Robo on March 03, 2009, 01:49:52 pm
Yeah, I don't use it enough to be very proficient in getting it set up just right.  Pretty cool site you have there though.  How about some explanation about how you cut your hand holds?

Trust me I ain't very proficient at setting it up either.  You wouldn't want to see the pile of scraps I went through to get it "close enough".  That's why once I got it set up, it became my supers jig and I'm not changing it :-P 

For the hand holds I use a molding cutter in the table saw.  I built a jig to make it quicker/safer/more consistent.  Once again,  I have a collection of supers with upside down hand holds from before I built the jig.   I have some picture and I'll write up a better explanation when I get a chance.
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: David LaFerney on March 03, 2009, 05:37:40 pm
Yeah, I don't use it enough to be very proficient in getting it set up just right.  Pretty cool site you have there though.  How about some explanation about how you cut your hand holds?

Trust me I ain't very proficient at setting it up either.  You wouldn't want to see the pile of scraps I went through to get it "close enough".  That's why once I got it set up, it became my supers jig and I'm not changing it :-P 

For the hand holds I use a molding cutter in the table saw.  I built a jig to make it quicker/safer/more consistent.  Once again,  I have a collection of supers with upside down hand holds from before I built the jig.   I have some picture and I'll write up a better explanation when I get a chance.

You must have the same dovetail jig that I have.  Like the old saying - once I cut the same piece three times and it was still too short.

Looks like you have a pretty cool shop though.  You aren't one of those elitists with heat in your shop are you?
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: Two Bees on March 05, 2009, 01:55:04 pm
Bees are not a fussy as we are though.  If they don't like the gap in your woodenware, they will seal it up. 

When separating your supers and deeps, if you're easy with the hive tool and "ease" the boxes apart a little at a time, the pop will be more of a long crackling sound.  As someone mentioned, a little smoke in the crack just let's them know you're there and they will appreciate that.

Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: Michael Bush on March 05, 2009, 09:14:49 pm
As the guys on my framing crew used to say "we ain't build'n pianos"
Title: Re: How big can cracks between boxes be?
Post by: TimLa on March 06, 2009, 10:47:59 pm
As the guys on my framing crew used to say "we ain't build'n pianos"


HA!  Absolutely, except up here the saying is " it's not a 787, don't worry about it "

-T