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Author Topic: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT  (Read 5679 times)

Offline beemaster

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I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« on: December 27, 2014, 06:11:42 PM »
Both are about the election. "Why oh Why Lord" don't we have an National Primary Day and the DO AWAY WITH THE Electoral College and it's part in our countries election - ENOUGH of the silliness, people aren't going to polls - they just tune-in to see who Florida voted won't for so we can know who the next President is. It is almost THAT sickening. Ugh.

Am I nuts on this one? Can't we just vote online on two set days a year - and air the Political Debates on TV live for 24hrs prior to election and have a PRIMARY National Day. Give all the candidates all the air time they want (it will be like a Jerry Lewis Telethon.) What??? too soon?

I'm tired of only having two candidates when THREE candidates drop out before the first primaries. I like that, you got all season to convince people why they should you vote for - you can spend as much as you can't campaign that $24 - but all candidates get equil camera time. THEN VOTE!!!!

I only care if my candidate remains in the race for Super Tuesday (which NJ has been a part of about 5 years. Use to be in June.


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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2014, 08:53:08 PM »
>DO AWAY WITH THE Electoral College

There were very good reasons for the electoral college.  The original system was this:

U.S. Congressmen were elected by the people.
U.S. Senators were elected by the the state senators
U.S. Presidents were elected by the Electoral college
Electoral college was elected by the people.

When this country was young you didn't "run" for office, you got "drafted" by the state senate to represent them in the U.S. senate.  You didn't "run" for president, you got "drafted" by the Electoral college.  This was, in my opinion, a very good system.  Anyone might get elected president even if they didn't want to "run".  Only U.S. congressmen and state senators really were campaigning and that was only in their local jurisdictions.

Now we have laws in most states that require the electoral college to vote the same as the candidate.  When I first voted the names on the ballot for President were the person who was running for the electoral college representing that presidential candidate... now they just put the candidate on the ballot which gives the misimpression you are having a popular vote for president.  If Germany had an electoral college there would have been one last chance to NOT elect Hitler...
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Offline kathyp

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2014, 11:31:39 PM »
 :goodpost:

I am with you on the national primary day though.  as long as we are going to do it like this, we should have one day of voting with early or absentee voting only for hardship cases.

this business of voting over the course of a month, by mail, from state to state, sucks.

not sure i'd go with all online voting though.  we don't want our elections at the mercy of the Sony hackers   :-D

we are where we are because we have landed somewhere between "fairness" and democracy.  one not achievable and the other not desirable. 
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2014, 11:53:49 PM »
>not sure i'd go with all online voting though.  we don't want our elections at the mercy of the Sony hackers

Or the government... as Stalin so famously said, it's not the voters who decide an election, it's the people who count the votes... if it's all electronic then where is the physical audit to prove the actual count and the validity of the ballots.  We have a physical system that can be audited and proven.  A given polling place is given x number of ballots.  They have to account for all of those ballots.  All of them are either cast, thrown out as miscast, or left over.  The number of cast ballots has to agree with the number of voters who signed the registry.  The total number of ballots has to agree with the total number originally sent to that polling place.  The actual votes can be recounted at any time by looking at the physical ballots.  The only real options for cheating are all those dead people who vote every year...


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Offline GSF

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2014, 06:34:15 AM »
We should change the voting day from Tuesday to Saturday. Working 30+ miles away from my voting place and voting on a working day jeopardizes my chances to vote.
When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you - then you know your nation is doomed.

Offline kathyp

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2014, 02:04:07 PM »
fair enough.  or extend the voting hours.  make it a 24 hour thing Friday-Saturday.

There was a time when voting meant enough that many jobs gave people time off to do it.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline beemaster

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2014, 02:38:38 PM »
About online voting - one valid point is how money transacts from place to place, we eat dinner out and before you get to your car the charge is on your credit card. Billions, if not trillions of electronic transactions happen every day and the BEST of hackers seem to get nothing more that unsecured information from people's account - rarely do SSNs get stolen through hacking.

My point is that if I can trust EVERY PENNY I have ever saved to an online banking institution, one which might have me making dozens of buy/sell orders a week - then why can't (as an option) you be allowed to vote at home (cancelling your ability at the actual poll) or visa-verse instantly.

Not for one second do I believe the actual poll count we see across this country is near correct - I'd guess poll results differ as much as 3-4% of actual polling numbers - so you have a fudge factor. How many times did Florida have recounts with Bush-Gore?

So, AS AN OPTION we sign-up online and create a National (or State) Voting Account.  It asks the same questions, what was your first dogs name? What was your mothers middle name, where were you married, etc. Then we get our usernames and passwords and if we choose VOTE at HOME!

I hate to add, make it more like gun registration if you think it is easily compromised - I don't want people waiting to vote for 6 months like it took me to get my firearms license.

It not only could work, but is inevitable - will an every growing population, the Feds will pass a law to allow online voting and I think it could be every bit as near flawless as the way trillions of dollars are handled every day.

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Offline Richard M

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2014, 12:24:30 AM »
  The only real options for cheating are all those dead people who vote every year...

Or as they say in Sydney (Australia) - "Vote Early, Vote Often".

Offline beemaster

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2014, 10:28:45 AM »
Good Posts here.

I don't care how the Party's figure out a campaign tour around a National Primary Day - let's do it!

So, From Friday noon to Saturday noon in every timezone - we Have the primary everywhere in all 50 states - Saturday night we celebrate a new President and reenforced that no matter how much we hate a President, we still accept him as our new Highest Negator of Laws, if veto power is used. Commander in Chief of our Armed Forces. That's a lot and AS A PEOPLE we accept the new person to do All three well.

Honestly though, if you are just getting to the First Tuesday in June (how NJ used to be) you have no candidates to choose from - they've all stepped out of the race. If Right-winged, and you didn't have anyone to vote for because it came too late for you - they're discounting your vote on the Candidates Running. So you likely never went out on a Primary Day before. Join us 3 months earlier and lets all of us chose the candidates from each party early on (or later, wouldn't bother me one bit if ALL of us voted National Primary in any calendar month - long as we all vote that day.

I know to get any of these wishes, it still takes the Legislative Branches - to please everyone and then I'm sure added as a new Article or something.

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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2015, 03:24:22 PM »
>DO AWAY WITH THE Electoral College

There were very good reasons for the electoral college.  The original system was this:

U.S. Congressmen were elected by the people.
U.S. Senators were elected by the the state senators
U.S. Presidents were elected by the Electoral college
Electoral college was elected by the people.

When this country was young you didn't "run" for office, you got "drafted" by the state senate to represent them in the U.S. senate.  You didn't "run" for president, you got "drafted" by the Electoral college.  This was, in my opinion, a very good system.  Anyone might get elected president even if they didn't want to "run".  Only U.S. congressmen and state senators really were campaigning and that was only in their local jurisdictions.

Now we have laws in most states that require the electoral college to vote the same as the candidate.  When I first voted the names on the ballot for President were the person who was running for the electoral college representing that presidential candidate... now they just put the candidate on the ballot which gives the misimpression you are having a popular vote for president.  If Germany had an electoral college there would have been one last chance to NOT elect Hitler...

I totally agree that the electoral college needs to stay. But I would also say that we should have one national primary day and we should get rid of the direct election of senators. The senate is supposed to represent states. The direct election of senators takes the state representation out of the federal government. The people are effectively being represented twice.
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline phill

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2015, 03:42:13 PM »
Sorry, but I disagree about a national primary. In fact I think the presidential-election system has tilted too far toward primaries already.

Years ago, a presidential candidate had to show that he could draw support in a party caucus, a primary, or a smoke-filled room. That system was good for identifying seasoned politicians, who'd be able to put together coalitions to support their policies.

Now, with more state primaries (and more media coverage of them), the system favors the candidates who are telegenic and articulate. That's good; nobody wants an inarticulate president, so the primaries have their place. But the system doesn't screen out the lightweights: the candidates who look good and sound good but can't rally their party regulars behind them.

Offline kathyp

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2015, 03:55:46 PM »
Quote
Sorry, but I disagree about a national primary. In fact I think the presidential-election system has tilted too far toward primaries already.

i think what we were talking about is a national primary day.  this business of extending the primary voting over weeks with many states allowing weeks to vote, is BS.  In a state like mine, the decision is made by the time we vote. 
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline mikecva

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2015, 06:03:26 PM »
If we voted on line then those who 'fix' our elections would not have to work as hard. If we went to 24 hour elections then maybe the people in our 50th state could have a say in the election, not that those who get elected even care what the people want.  -Mike
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Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 08:23:20 AM »
not that those who get elected even care what the people want

That is about as true as any statement I have ever heard... In some cases I think they have good intentions but intentions don't = results...
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline kathyp

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2015, 12:52:40 AM »
Quote
That is about as true as any statement I have ever heard.

but who is at fault for that?  how many incombants are elected over and over.  why don't our kids know this stuff? 

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/poll-millennials-state-senators-114867.html

bet they can name every iteration of the iphone and it's updates.  they can name the hot songs and actors, but not who represents them in congress.
this is on us.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called the government. They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2015, 10:35:37 PM »
Kathy, to be honest... Nobody represents me in Congress... Richard Hanna is supposed to represent me but he doesn't. He didn't get my vote either. Chucky Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand are supposed to represent New York in the Senate but no state is represented. Some of the people are represented Twice...
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Eric Bosworth

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2015, 10:36:56 PM »
Oh yeah... I didn't vote for Chuck or Kirsten either. .
All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns; that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party. ---Mao Tse Tung

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. ---Benjamin Franklin

Offline Silverback

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2015, 05:11:33 AM »
If there is a concern with how the electoral college functions in your state then take it up with the state legislators. Each state controls how the electoral college assigns their vote. In most states it is winner takes all and as a result the large metropolitan centers dominate the rest of a state. Chicago dominates Illinois, Seattle dominates Washington state. Freedom starts at home, as in your city, county, state, before the nation.
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2015, 09:07:36 AM »
I think people underestimate how much sway they may have with the state.  A lot of state legislators are looking for feedback from their constituents.  You may be able to effect some change at that level.  By the time you get to the feds, not so much, but change can work it's way from the bottom up.
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Offline buzzbee

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Re: I Only want TWO THINGS FROM MY GOVERNMENT
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2015, 09:24:48 AM »
About online voting - one valid point is how money transacts from place to place, we eat dinner out and before you get to your car the charge is on your credit card. Billions, if not trillions of electronic transactions happen every day and the BEST of hackers seem to get nothing more that unsecured information from people's account - rarely do SSNs get stolen through hacking.

My point is that if I can trust EVERY PENNY I have ever saved to an online banking institution, one which might have me making dozens of buy/sell orders a week - then why can't (as an option) you be allowed to vote at home (cancelling your ability at the actual poll) or visa-verse instantly.

Not for one second do I believe the actual poll count we see across this country is near correct - I'd guess poll results differ as much as 3-4% of actual polling numbers - so you have a fudge factor. How many times did Florida have recounts with Bush-Gore?

So, AS AN OPTION we sign-up online and create a National (or State) Voting Account.  It asks the same questions, what was your first dogs name? What was your mothers middle name, where were you married, etc. Then we get our usernames and passwords and if we choose VOTE at HOME!

I hate to add, make it more like gun registration if you think it is easily compromised - I don't want people waiting to vote for 6 months like it took me to get my firearms license.

It not only could work, but is inevitable - will an every growing population, the Feds will pass a law to allow online voting and I think it could be every bit as near flawless as the way trillions of dollars are handled every day.


   Here is the proof we needed that online voting may be as secure as the online baking and such John.
Experian, one of the big three credit agencies has been hacked.Personal info on 15 million people, including SS numbers and complete identities, stolen. 
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/01/experian-hack-t-mobile-credit-checks-personal-information

I think we better leave the voting the way it has been done. If people are truly wanting to vote,they can make arrangements to get it done. They have no trouble making the necessary accommodation to see movies or other important things. It is one day every couple years. Surely they can plan ahead. If lines are long, local jurisdictions should be making provisions to handle more people. Each district knows how many voters are registered. They can prepare ahead of time. Often, I think long lines are to discourage certain voters.

 

anything