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Author Topic: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?  (Read 2938 times)

Offline Joe D

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2016, 12:41:03 AM »
I started to keep bees five and a half years ago and have never treated.  I have had a coupe of hives that absconded, and one that starved(my fault).  Back a couple years ago a neighbor let a commercial bk  put 20 hive on his place and was fixing to put another 20 there.  I saw him at our local bee club and told him his bee were I/2 mile from me.  He asked what I treated with and I told him I have never treated for mites, within a couple of weeks his bees were gone and haven't been back.  Worked great for me.

Good luck to you and your bees


Joe D

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2016, 05:54:43 PM »
I need to tell the commercial Beek that puts his hives right up against my property the same thing. Maybe he will stop putting them on top of me.
Jim
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:56:44 PM by sawdstmakr »
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Offline Oblio13

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2016, 08:32:39 PM »
>I bought bees from both Kirk Webster and Anarchy Apiaries (Sam Cook) year after year, and year after year I lost them to Varroa.

On natural comb?  Small cell?  Large cell?  I lost all my bees to Varroa everytime on large cell foundation.
Natural comb - I use foundationless frames in eight-frame medium boxes, and a few Warre hives.

Offline Philbee100

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2017, 02:58:54 AM »
>And catching feral swarms is not feasible.   

I don't see how it's not feasible, but the first step is to get bees that are surviving without treatments.  The feral bees have already taken their losses.  If you don't want to trap them or get on a swarm list or do a cut out then try these for next year:

http://www.fatbeeman.com/bees-honey/
http://www.wolfcreekbees.com/
http://www.goldstarhoneybees.com/shopcontent.asp?type=How%20to%20get%20bees%20for%20your%20Gold%20Star%20top%20bar%20hive
http://anarchyapiaries.org/hivetools/node/32
http://www.enjoybeekeeping.com/

And if they are all sold out you can call or write:
Kirk Webster
Box 381
Middlebury, Vt. 05753
802-989-5895 (no voice mail)

Myron Kropf
2233 LITTLE WOODS RD
BEXAR AR 72515-9509
870-458-3002 (no voice mail)

And there are others.  Likely there are some treatment free beekeepers near you.
In New Zealand all our feral bees are dead due to Varroa.
If all the Beekeepers here went treatment free the industry would be decimated inside two seasons.
As far as Genetics go I cant see how and insect that open mates can be genetically improved?
Or can it?

Online Acebird

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2017, 09:34:19 AM »
As far as Genetics go I cant see how and insect that open mates can be genetically improved?
How did the earth get populated with people when the only form of life was bacteria?
How do you genetically improve a species when you kill off its parasites for them?
Brian Cardinal
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Offline EaglePestEliminators

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2017, 11:22:10 AM »
Treat or not to treat Decision is always personal.

FYI: Varroa Treatment: Treatments currently available for Varroa. Pyrethroid based varroacides, Thymol based varroacides more likely be Apiguard, MAQS Beehive Strips (not found everywhere), pi-Bioxal (oxalic acid).

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2017, 01:29:41 PM »
>In New Zealand all our feral bees are dead due to Varroa.

Maybe.  But I've heard people say the the same here and it's simply not true.
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Offline gww

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2017, 07:08:56 PM »
I am a brand new bee keeper.  I think I know that most hive that are over run by mites do it by having babies, lots of babies.  If all hives have mites wether teated or untreated and the mite become an over load due to lots of brood making lots of mites and lots of mites infecting more bees with virus?  I do not see how the treatment free or treating guys can really be hurting each other that bad and even if they are, it will never be stopped.  I lean to the treatment free due to the fact that nobody controls all thier swarms so that none get away and so mites will never go away.  My conclusion right now is to not worry bout how anyone else keeps bees except maby to steal ideals from them that I want to incorperate for myself.  I have not treated yet and nothing has died yet.  When something dies, I will do an autopsy and try and figure out why.  I will watch for dmv and pierced brood caps and such.

If I lose some bees I might still live treatment free if I still end up with more then I started with when all is said and done.

I could be wrong but was thinking that kirk and micheal palmer may have had hives in the same area and both have taken differrent routes and made it work.  I am not even against treaters as long as they don't point too many fingers at me for the way I keep bees.  I might be a treater someday if that is where I decide to go.  Alot will depend on how I do now.

I figure all the bee keepers lose some of thier bees.  I don't expect to never lose one.  As long as I can keep building at a slow rate and not going too far backward (Though everyone of the big name early guys like lanstroth and miller all lost whole aperies and they are still looked up to.

One thing I believe is that the outside invioroment can not be controlled and so I intend to do it my way (which includes stealing ideals from others).  I am sure of one thing.  Bees are probly going no where cause all you have to do is look on craigs list and somebody always has extra to sell.

I would not try treatment free but the guy I bought my bees from doesn't treat and so I am letting it ride also.  I do think there is a differrance with a commercial guy who makes a living off bees with no other income.  I believe what they do is find the easiest way to put little proceedures in so that it can be relayed to thier helpers with less oversite from them.

Most peg away at it till they find what works really well for them and then the growing stops untill something new starts happenning.  Why make changes to what you know if you are being successful.

If I am successful not treating, you will not be able to convince me I am doing it wrong.  Most are like that. 
Cheers
gww

Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2017, 08:05:04 PM »
GWW
When I started keeping bees. I was told over and over again that it was impossible to keep bees treatment free. That was 8 years ago and I am still treatement free. I use dry oil trays so you can check for mites all the time. Most hives have very few mites even with the trays being left un cleaned for a week. When I started out, there were very few feral swarms. At my farm, my wife's garden went un pollinatedfor 2 years until I placed hives there.   Now we see bees before we move them to the farm.
It can and is being done, even some commercial beeks are now doing it.
Jim
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Offline gww

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2017, 08:40:22 PM »
Saw
Yes, I would not have the guts if I did not know that some have success.  It has some appeal to me cause I am lazy and not sure that I wan't lots of hives making 200lbs of honey.  I like money as good as anyone but already had one full time job for a big part of my life.  I am doing this cause it keeps me home and it is fun to learn.

I am using solid bottom boards cause I don't have to buy anything to build them.
I started this year with three hives and one swarmed and I gave the swarm away and then still did a fly back sorta split to try and stop after swarms.  Today I did a teronov split cause I found queen cups with eggs in them and did not want to lose more bees.  I was dissapointed cause I was going to try to make a little honey this year.  I need to get in the last hive and add some empties in the brood nest before it decides it wants to swarm.

I now have five hives and gave one away and didn't treat yet and if two die I will be even and the year is just started.  I of course in all of this am relieing on the queens getting mated and laying.

I don't know what the future holds for me but I am going to not treat for awhile and see how it goes.
Thanks for the tray trick.  I doubt it works with my hives and what I built.
gww

Offline cao

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2017, 09:36:06 PM »
Five years and counting with bees and not treated yet.  I have more of a problem with SHB than mites.  I do have SBB with oil trays on some of my hive and that helps alot.  I don't even look for mites.  I started with 3 nucs five years ago and had 20 make it through winter this year.  With swarms and splits I'm over 30(provided queens get mated).  I have several more hives to split.  It can be done treatment free.  Yes I have lost hives along the way but have had the resources to keep increasing numbers.  I understand the fear a new beek has in losing a hive when they only have one or two.  I think that is some of the reason why people treat.   Bees will live or die whether treated or not.  We cannot control nature.  We can only help it along.

Offline little john

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2017, 03:36:40 PM »
Interesting Article in Nature this week about the relationship of varroa and Deformed Wing Virus (DWV). https://www.nature.com/articles/srep45953

Some implications there perhaps for those who don't treat ... ?
LJ
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Online Acebird

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Re: Varroa - to treat, or not to treat ?
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2017, 05:42:51 PM »
Some implications there perhaps for those who don't treat ... ?

I saw some implications that they have no idea why some colonies continue to live year after year without treatment.  Then go on to make assumptions that the end is near.
Well OK I will make an assumption that these colonies survive because they are in a remote area and not influenced by colonies that are treated.  That would explain why when you move them to areas that have bees that are treated they die.  Simple solution to help the bees in the long run would be to ban treatments of all honeybees.  As long as we are making assumptions and calling it science...
Brian Cardinal
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