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Author Topic: Bad Texas law proposed  (Read 579 times)

Offline Dallasbeek

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Bad Texas law proposed
« on: March 01, 2017, 04:39:30 PM »
This legislative bill isn't good for Texas hobby beekeepers:


http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/85R/billtext/html/HB01293I.htm
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Acebird

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 05:58:54 PM »
Why not?  You don't even have to register if you have less than 25 hives.
Brian Cardinal
Just do it

Offline gww

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 06:08:25 PM »
I like MO.  Don't have to register at all.
gww

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 09:14:44 PM »
In Alabama you have to register if you have 1 have and ghen let the know if you are stopping keeping

Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 09:59:42 PM »
Here in FL, you have to register if you only have one hive.
Jim
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Offline herbhome

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2017, 12:50:32 AM »
The law in Arkansas is all hives including hobby must be registered. It's no cost and keeps commercial operations from setting up in your pasturage w/o your permission. Landowners can't be stopped, so technically if your neighbor puts up a thousand hives, tough luck.

Many hobby keeps just ignore the law, I suspect.

Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2017, 05:20:53 AM »
One of the reasons for registering your bees here is that if you are following the best methods and practices and you are registered, the state helps to protect you from lawsuits or neighbors trying to stop you from having bees.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2017, 06:51:43 AM »
I was told that in Alabama the reason we register was to help track disease and the money also went towards research

Offline gww

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2017, 10:06:43 AM »
If it was a law here to register, I would probly ignore it but I am glad it is not.  We do have to report american foul brood.  I hope they never change.  Thankfully they changed the law on selling honey here also.  So now I can do what I was going to do anyway and not be considered a criminal.

I here the arguements for the laws but think that most are bull.  They are not really accomplishing anything except making the powers that be not having to have probable cause to go where they want.  As long as there are wild bees, a law regulating keepers is really got to be more of a smoke screen then really accomplishing what they say it will accomplish.

Cheers
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2017, 01:33:13 PM »
Here's a link to an organization opposing the bill. It contains links to various arguments.  Everyone seems to agree that Texas law regulating beekeeping needs to be changed, but the proponents of this bill have misrepresented (allegedly) support by the Texas Beekeepers Association, which was denied any advance input into the bill.

Thanks for comments by residents of other states, but I was attempting to let other Texans know about this proposed legislation.  The existing law is flawed and weak, but some elements of this bill look bad for many beekeepers.  Yes, hobby beekeepers could just ignore the law (and do), but we'd like to have a law that would work.  Our current chief apiary inspector and his two assistants (yes, two for this huge state) are very helpful, so I don't know where these proposals originated.  We'll look forward to hearings on the bill.

http://www.savetexasbeekeepers.org/
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline texanbelchers

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2017, 01:46:05 PM »
Why not?  You don't even have to register if you have less than 25 hives.

It is a bad law because it is too undefined.  I trust the current Chief Apiary Inspector, but that may not be the case next year or the next inspector.  As written it is extremely open for him/her to enforce whatever fad they choose.  This would be at the cost of the owner with no recourse or oversight.

I understand (I think) that the attempt is begin made to provide flexibility to respond to changing needs.  This may be good, but I'm not willing to support the undefined cost.  If the current laws had an effect on the existing problems, then extending them may make sense.  It doesn't appear that they have done anything to control older issues.

Personally, I would like to see every apiary (defined as 1+ hive) registered.  This could be done online with no cost.  This would let other beekeepers know who is around; the clubs seem to be worthless in this and many other aspects of beekeeping.  It would also be a resource for farmers and others spraying so they could provide warning.  My apiary is registered, but there is no access to the data nor means or even requirement for any notification.  I've had at least 3 occurrences of hearing the spray truck drive by after dark and the next day piles of dead bees in front of the hives 75 feet from the road.  I'm moving my apiary to a more rural area, but there is no guarantee that the farms won't spray.

You could require inspections and/or fees based on number of hives and/or activities, but I would want that and the associated charges codified.  There are a few well known diseases that need certain responses.  However, there are many others that are more grey.  As written, the inspector could (not that he would) force a TF Beek to treat all of his hives.  Or force someone who uses OAV to use a much more costly treatment.

Overall, I would approve of LESS government across the board.  This is a move in the opposite direction.  The process *feels* forced and it *feels* like it is begin driven by a hidden agenda.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2017, 02:17:14 PM »
Good post with good, valid points.  Thanks, belcher.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline gww

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2017, 03:29:52 PM »
Dallas
Quote
Thanks for comments by residents of other states, but I was attempting to let other Texans know about this proposed legislation.

I sorta realized that but then got to thinking that people that like to legislate often look to other states best practices rather then create thier own document.  It is much easyer to take what someone else was successful in passing then it is to come up with new.  So just because it is a texas thing now, other legislators may want to emulate it.

I thought those in other states that had these laws might benefit from the perspective of someone who is living in heaven and not having to put up with such nonsense yet.

Then maby some day there will be a push from all states to go the other way from even what is current and used to.
I won't mess your thread up any more though :embarassed:
Cheers
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2017, 04:26:01 PM »
No, don't go away.  You make a good point about people in other states emulating laws from other states. 

Our inspectors spend most of their time dealing with migratory keepers passing through Texas, I suspect.   Migratory keepers must have a terrible time having to deal with regulators in every state they pass through.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline gww

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2017, 06:44:42 PM »
Dallas
This is a hot topic on another site also and I basically made the same point there.  I am sure that in extreem cases of abuse, there has to be some way of adressing issues that come up.
I just question the answers side affects when coming up with the answers and like drugs, it has to sometime be considered wether the cure is worse then the disease.

The texas thing has lots of opposition  by texans and very little support and I guess it won't be too long and we will see if opposition really counts.

As always dallas
I wish you the best.
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2017, 08:37:12 PM »
Fortunately, it usually takes introduction of a bill in several sessions of the legislature before even a good, clean, unopposed bill passes because our legislature is not very energetic about working.  Then, too, our legislature meets only once every two years and there are elections between sessions, I think. This means it's hard to pass laws in Texas, but as the saying goes in Austin, "Your money and daughters are never safe when the legislature is in session."
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline gww

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2017, 10:24:59 PM »
Dallas
Not to take your thread off topic but for your info, there is also a lot of comment going on now about fda labeling of honey and the requirement to list added sugars.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?334465-FDA-Guidance-for-Nutrition-Labels-including-Honey-in-2018-out-for-comment

and your topic
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?333785-Texas-Lagging-Behind-Once-Again!-H-B-1293

I hope I am in proper form in posting these links.
Cheers
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2017, 12:58:07 PM »
GWW, thanks for the link about the FDA's sugar labeling requirement.  Looks like that will create a lot of confusion without helping consumers who are paying for honey but getting sugar water from unscrupulous companies.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline gww

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2017, 07:07:14 PM »
Dallas
Somebody wrote on the other forum that this legislation has been pulled.
Thought you should know.
gww

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: Bad Texas law proposed
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2017, 08:27:53 PM »
Dallas
Somebody wrote on the other forum that this legislation has been pulled.
Thought you should know.
gww

That's what the Dallas paper reported today.  For this year.
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

 

anything