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Author Topic: Obahmacare  (Read 1709 times)

Offline Acebird

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2017, 10:42:51 PM »
I wouldn't swap our health care in Australia for what you guys have, all Aussies get basic medical care. If we get sick we are all covered, if we want a private room etc you pay, simple

 what if disease was missed diagnosed and treatment not given in timely manner? what costs then?

LMAO, sorry for laughing.  This doesn't happen now?
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Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2017, 10:51:02 PM »
tell that to my wife. they missed hearr condition for over 59 years. they wereactivly looking again just over 15 years ago. finnaly found it about three years ago. SSI refused hear benifits because they did not have a confermed problem with her health before the five years after whe left working . only thing she gets now is SS because she turned 62 last sug.

Offline gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2017, 11:00:18 PM »
Divemaster
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what is the cost for additional testing and care. what if disease was missed diagnosed and treatment not given in timely manner? what costs then?

I know over here they already limit testing and make miss diagnoses and kill a lot of people with medical care.  Yet the big push is to limit recourse just like they are doing with work comp on your case. 

It is already pretty bad and so if it become a right to get medical care, at least they may not take your house and ruin you financially more then what is all ready happenning due to loss of wage an illness usually causes.
I wish you the best.
gww

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2017, 10:04:50 AM »
tell that to my wife. they missed hearr condition for over 59 years. they wereactivly looking again just over 15 years ago. finnaly found it about three years ago. SSI refused hear benifits because they did not have a confermed problem with her health before the five years after whe left working . only thing she gets now is SS because she turned 62 last sug.

That's horrible. There is not legally something that can be done? Have yall talked with a lawyer?

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2017, 12:06:47 PM »
Hops
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Lower unemployment rates during O's admin are due as much to a change in calculation methods as in any job "creation" by Obama.  Lower wages are due to an expansion of "service" jobs, while higher paying manufacturing jobs left the country in response to O's policies.

Government control of the healthcare industry has lead to widespread cost increases in every aspect of the industry.  Not the least of which are increases in cost of prescriptions.  When over-regulation limits competition, the natural result is higher prices.

I would say that the exodus of manufacturing was almost finnished by the time obama was elected with the biggest being in the bush administration.  I do agree that low paying sevice jobs is a poor replacement. 

Hops and dallas.

I still say as far as economics go, $2000 per person in european country compared to $5000 per person here and out health metrics slipping in comparison the thiers makes a pretty good economic arguement even with limmited compitition of the ones with the $2000 per person.

Economics is math is it not?
Cheers
gww
$2000 per person "in Europe"?  What are they paying for?  You do realize that Europe is a large number of independent nations with each nation having it's own unique laws.  yes?  And you do realize that the socialist states in Europe taxes are much higher than ours, and that is where their true payments for "free" healthcare come from.  Yes?

As Ace stated, nothing is free.  Someone, somewhere, is paying for it.  And when, in GB for example, a patient has to bring their own Tylenol and personal care items, the actual value for they receive is extraordinarily poor. 

Yes, economics is math, and you are missing certain elements critical to finding the correct answer to the equation.

NOt only did hundreds of companies send their manufacturing overseas under Obama, but dozens of them actually moved their headquarters overseas as well to avoid his insane regulations.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2017, 01:32:26 PM »
Hops
I would not make the case that no companys left under obama, I was just saying forming the position that it happened because of obama is not real as under bush much more left.

They are still leaving now under trump also and we all know that nafta caused quite a few factorys to go to mexico.  I have a friend that works in a lightbulb factory that is moving out of the country by june although there are rummers that they are moving that date up.

It is not the regulations that are causeing them to move but more the freedom and sometimes tax incentives and the fact that corperations Have no rules that make them be decent parts of the comunity and forces them to consider the comunity as part of their decision making.  The few rules that cause them not to dump hazards into the water ways and stuff and is called regulation becoming an excuse to move to a place that does not have those regulations and giving them the right to go destroy some where else and then send stuff back to the comunity they hurt to sell could be adressed.

You framed your post that obama was the reason that companys were leaving.  I framed mine to say that they were leaveing faster before obama.
Cheers
gww

Offline gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2017, 02:02:48 PM »
Hops
Of course taxes would be higher if we had single payer health.  However insurance  premiums would be lower cause it would be paid for through taxes.  If the insurance part being cut out adds up to four hundred billion a year and economics is math even with some missing parts that I may not understand then $2000 compared to $5000 might still be a good deal and if britton has issue with there healt care and made it $3000 per person those issues might not be there and it would still be $2000 cheaper then we are doing.  They have better metrics on child mortality and life span is matching ours and our life span is slipping.

Maby we should look at what austraila is doing or maby south korea.

You might as well be paying taxes if you are like micheal bush and kathy and having to pay $15000/$30000 a year anyway.
Cheers
gww

Offline Acebird

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2017, 05:32:58 PM »
Companies are leaving because there is not a high enough tarriff on goods brought back into this country.  The problem is lack of regulation.  If a company moves off shore it should be considered a foreigner and taxed to the point where they want to come here instead of leaving.
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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #68 on: March 30, 2017, 07:28:42 PM »
GWW,
I we end up with a single payer the costs will slowly escalate to the point we go bankrupt. Free market, no state boundaries and patients involved with the payments will lower costs.
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2017, 07:36:45 PM »
tell that to my wife. they missed hearr condition for over 59 years. they wereactivly looking again just over 15 years ago. finnaly found it about three years ago. SSI refused her benifits because they did not have a confermed problem with her health before the five years after whe left working . only thing she gets now is SS because she turned 62 last sug.

That's horrible. There is not legally something that can be done? Have yall talked with a lawyer?
done that. no leg to stand on by their regs.( per lawyer) so just have to do without the insurance she payed into for 45 years.( thats taxes under different name) so that person who I have seen inperson that is geting SSI because they have migranes all the time that they can't function but can go to casinos twice amonth and get speed boat to ski behind and take 6 crusies ayear but just can't work.

john

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2017, 07:41:21 PM »
Oh yea european single payer is so great that they have to pay the first 3000 for basic care then if anything more than that they have to hope they get taken care of before they die waiting for the opening. I know of several friends of family that have lost loved ones waiting even for something as simple now as just a single stint that is done as outpaitant here and your home that afternoon.

john

Offline Hops Brewster

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2017, 11:54:53 AM »
Hops
I would not make the case that no companys left under obama, I was just saying forming the position that it happened because of obama is not real as under bush much more left.

They are still leaving now under trump also and we all know that nafta caused quite a few factorys to go to mexico.  I have a friend that works in a lightbulb factory that is moving out of the country by june although there are rummers that they are moving that date up.

It is not the regulations that are causeing them to move but more the freedom and sometimes tax incentives and the fact that corperations Have no rules that make them be decent parts of the comunity and forces them to consider the comunity as part of their decision making.  The few rules that cause them not to dump hazards into the water ways and stuff and is called regulation becoming an excuse to move to a place that does not have those regulations and giving them the right to go destroy some where else and then send stuff back to the comunity they hurt to sell could be adressed.

You framed your post that obama was the reason that companys were leaving.  I framed mine to say that they were leaveing faster before obama.
Cheers
gww
Single payer ALWAYS costs more because of the lack of competition.  THat has been proven time and time again, in your precious Europe/.  Over regulation also causes quality to decrease, falling to the lowest common denominator. 

Comparing light bulb manufacturing to medical care is a streeettcchchch at best, but let's go with it.  You claim through second-hand "knowledge"  that lamp manufacturing moving overseas is not because of regulations.  Well, I'll tell ya brother,  I can claim first hand knowledge, having formerly been employed in that industry , that regulations imposed by the Demorats is exactly why our lamp manufacturing is moved overseas.   EPA over-regulation on mining and manufacturing, waste management, trade agreements, and a host of other regulations, as well as the kind of lamps that can be used, imposed by un-elected bureaucrats, which in the sum total say "Go Poison The 3rd instead", forced American manufacturers to move or to simply cease their own manufacturing and buy from foreign sources.  Of course they moved to where it costs less to do business, where there are few if any regulations, and those foreign manufacturers care nothing for the environment.  And the products they make are very often poor quality.

Your socialist math doesn't work.  Give me competition any day for better value for my dollar and for higher quality.
Winter is coming.

I can't say I hate the government, but I am proudly distrustful of them.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2017, 12:34:11 PM »
The light bulb industry in this country was old and antiquated being predominately incandescent.  It was because of oil dependency that FLR's came into existence in large numbers.  It was cheaper to build new plants off shore, true because of regulation.  FLR's are toxic.  But guess what when you buy the bulb you buy the toxic mercury and phosphorus with it.  Now you got another problem.  Nobody on the profit side cared.  But the consumer did so what was born due to technology is the LED.  Will the light bulb industry come back?  Highly doubtful unless the products made off shore are taxed which will allow the manufacturer to be profitable making them here.
Companies will continue to go off shore because it is more profitable.  But it won't be more profitable if there goods are taxed to bring them back into the country.  Every other country does this.  In many countries the businesses are government owned.  If you want competition then tax what isn't made here leveling the field and you will have competition back.
Regulation protects it's citizens.  If you want to be like China who doesn't care about it's citizens then move there.  Enjoy that form of government.  It is profit oriented.
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Offline iddee

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #73 on: March 31, 2017, 12:43:16 PM »
""something as simple now as just a single stint that is done as outpaitant here and your home that afternoon.""

I just went into the hospital Monday. They attempted to put a stint in through my wrist Tuesday. They couldn't get past my shoulder. Wednesday they went up from my groin and put two stints in one artery. I came home Thursday. "Yesterday". It was a bit more than an outpatient one day project.

PS. I get to go back in Tuesday for another one. Will the fun never end?
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline sawdstmakr

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2017, 12:53:15 PM »
Wow, Wally. I hope they help. Do you feel any better since they put the 2 in?
Jim
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain

Offline gww

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #75 on: March 31, 2017, 01:15:58 PM »
hops
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Comparing light bulb manufacturing to medical care is a streeettcchchch at best, but let's go with it.  You claim through second-hand "knowledge"  that lamp manufacturing moving overseas is not because of regulations.

I did not claim that they are moving over seas because of or not because of regulation, I claimed that they were moving over seas under trump.  I did point out that we should not be punished with these types of moves because we demand clean water and don't want to live in filth and have regulations that demand this.  I hoped to convey that somthing could be done to stop it.  I think ace got the point and at least has one avenue that might help.

I did not compare light bulb manufatureing to medical care but simple addressed this comment from you.
Quote
NOt only did hundreds of companies send their manufacturing overseas under Obama, but dozens of them actually moved their headquarters overseas as well to avoid his insane regulations

Iddee
  I have so many relitives with simular problims and some died in their early 50s even after treatment and for my dad, stints are no longer an option.  All the family on my dads side have at minimum stints but many by passess also.  I really hope they keep you kicking and scratching and around to give me trouble on my liberal views.  I am wishing you the best.
gww

Offline divemaster1963

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #76 on: March 31, 2017, 10:52:10 PM »
""something as simple now as just a single stint that is done as outpaitant here and your home that afternoon.""

I just went into the hospital Monday. They attempted to put a stint in through my wrist Tuesday. They couldn't get past my shoulder. Wednesday they went up from my groin and put two stints in one artery. I came home Thursday. "Yesterday". It was a bit more than an outpatient one day project.

PS. I get to go back in Tuesday for another one. Will the fun never end?


hope everthing goes well for you. had one of the guys at work that had a stint put in last Tues week. was back at work that Thursday. on lite duty for 2 weeks he says that he feels stronger now and more energy. back when my dad had them the firsts took a week in the hospital till the last ones he had put in that he was only in hospital for 2 days. by the way this is the list of the things my dad had done:

18 stints (total)
12 bypasses (total)
four pig valves had infection set in and had to go back after 6mounts
four human valves body refused implants and attacked his heart had to have emergency surgery after 29 days
four titanium valves, full synthetic aorta, half his heart muscle destroyed and synthetic casing for the heart.
all that within 8 months.
five years later
three stints in his neck.
15 years after that they installed pacemaker then 4years later replace with pacemaker/defibrillator

he lived 29 years longer that the doctors gave him to live. he played golf everyday after he first go out of the hospital.
finally passed 5 years and 5 days after my mom passed of a brain aneurysm. ( of lonely heart syndrome. doctors called it.)

he always said that life to put curves in the road of life but that's what made the the journey more interesting because it made you slow down and look at the scenery and not just head down and balls to the wall.

Offline iddee

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #77 on: March 31, 2017, 11:26:10 PM »
To each his own, DM, but life is not that important to me. I have a living will that is 20 years old and I told the hospital to put DNR on all my records. ""Do not resuscitate"" As for losing the wife, I agree with your dad's cause of death. If my wife goes before me, I am ready to go before her funeral. It's just the difference in people.

PS. I had an invalid brother-in-law that lived with me for 40 years. I said many times I would rather be dead than in his shoes.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline iddee

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #78 on: March 31, 2017, 11:32:39 PM »
gww, there's not many things better than a good argument as long as nobody gets mad. I never get mad discussing politics. The hotter the argument, the more I laugh. Neither of us can change what happens in DC more than 1/300 millionth of what it takes. ''300 million voters make the decisions."" You keep smiling and give it to me full force, as long as you don't get mad when I give it back. That's why I miss bluebee. We could get hot and heavy, but remain friends.   :cool:
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline herbhome

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Re: Obahmacare
« Reply #79 on: March 31, 2017, 11:55:24 PM »
Welcome back Iddee,

Glad your still giving us heck! :smile:

 

anything