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Author Topic: The Truth About Vaccines  (Read 820 times)

Offline flyboy

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The Truth About Vaccines
« on: April 13, 2017, 11:41:35 PM »
This is a link to get the documentary. It is free now. There are 7 episodes and this is the second.

Quite a good documentary.

https://go2.thetruthaboutvaccines.com/docuseries/episode-2
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Al
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Offline Acebird

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2017, 10:21:32 AM »
Yeah, that is God awful scary.  How do you fight city hall?
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Offline flyboy

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2017, 01:10:53 PM »
Donald is. He's arranged RFK junior to head up an investigation into the safety aspects of it.
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Al
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 11:31:29 AM »
The link that vaccines causing autism if non existent. It was made up and bad science.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 12:25:47 PM »
The link that vaccines causing autism if non existent. It was made up and bad science.

That is correct, but it's like flat-earth believers.  No amount of evidence will convert believers in any such nonsense. 
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 05:27:26 PM »
It was made up and bad science.
Do you have a link to the proof?
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Offline kathyp

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2017, 07:14:02 PM »
This is what happens when older generations die out and the horrors of past diseases are forgotten.  Kind of like the depression era folks dying and the ideas of scarcity and conservation getting lost. 

Don't vaccinate.  When your child is in a coma, brain damaged, or crippled by a completely preventable disease, you'll get it....better late than never, I guess.

That said, I do think the vaccination schedule and some of the vaccines are overdone.  This is the bit that should be looked into.  The anti-vaccination people should just be shot on sight. 
One could not learn history from architecture any more than one could learn it from books. Statues, inscriptions, memorial stones, the names of streets ? anything that might throw light upon the past had been systematically altered. (1.8.85)

George Orwell  "1984"

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 08:38:22 PM »
Yes Kathy, you know so much about the medical industry.
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Offline flyboy

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2017, 08:58:22 PM »
Don't vaccinate.  When your child is in a coma, brain damaged, or crippled by a completely preventable disease, you'll get it....better late than never, I guess.

Interesting comment.

A friend of mine's child (father is a Harvard trained pediatric psychiatrist) went into a coma the day of the vaccine. Her speech is delayed and she acts like a space cadet.

One of my grandchildren's eyes went sideways after a vaccination.

Another friend's boy who is 20 or so is autistic in the worst kind of way.

I heard the story about polio vaccinations, and had heard there was another side to that tale and they tell the story in the second part of the documentary.  Basically polio for about 99.5% of PPL is no more than a sniffle or headache.

Checkout the ads for DDT at the time   https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/06/27/ddt-is-good-for-me-e-e/

However when DDT was sprayed there was a upsurge in the polio cases with the bad side effects of the limb deformation and the upsurge can be seen in the statistics. It is lockstep, six months after DDT was sprayed, polio cases soared and when the spray subsided, the polio cases subsided and when it was resumed the polio cases resumed six months later.

Kathy, I think you really ought to watch the documentary, before you make up your mind. Interestingly the polio cases completely subsided when the DDT was taken off the market, which just so happened to coincide with the introduction of the polio vaccine. The initial oral vaccine used live viruses and even Salk later admitted that was a big mistake because that caused the epidemic to resume.

Another interesting thing is that they reclassified polio after they introduced the vaccine. There was three illnesses at the time which tended to be called polio at the time, because the classification system was kind of loosey goosey but the results all looked the same. After the vaccine came in they shifted the names of the majority of the old polio classifications to a new one called As (you have to watch the doc for the full name.) So when you add of the names of the cases of the old polio and the new polio + As you get roughly the same. It is a fascinating study into how the drug companies lie.

Then Bill Gates (son of the eugenicist William H. Gates senior) took some of this polio oral live vaccine and donated it to India. Prior to his campaign there was sub 100 cases of the problem polio in the millions of PPL in India. Shortly after he "donated" the vaccines they spiked up to 96,000 cases. (this link says 48,000)
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Al
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Offline flyboy

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 09:04:21 PM »
Here is what eugenics is about....



Hitler Henry Ford and some other "rich" folks were in this category.

(sorry I changed the link, the original one was wrong.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 10:26:26 PM by flyboy »
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Al
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Offline kathyp

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 11:06:41 PM »
In October many apples fall from my trees.  In October many birds fly over my property.  Apples fall because birds fly over.

Of course not.

I have seen prevaccine disease and complications.  Parents now never have to worry about the thing I and especially those before me had to worry about.  Every rash does not make you worry about high fevers or brain damage. 
You do not keep your kids away from everyone in the summer because of a fear of a crippling disease.  (DDT?  Really.  That's the most stupid thing I have ever heard, at least recently)   Polio predates DDT and the virus is identifiable. 
Your babies are not born deformed, dead, or otherwise compromised because mom got exposed to measles.  Schools are not shut down because of massive outbreaks. 

You don't even think about these things.  You don't have to.

Documentaries are made to present a certain point of view.  They are not facts.  They are usually propaganda, so not, I am not interested in wasting time on anti-vaxx crap.  Now, if you want to debate the number of vaccines, or that there are some that are probably not needed, that's a different subject. 
One could not learn history from architecture any more than one could learn it from books. Statues, inscriptions, memorial stones, the names of streets ? anything that might throw light upon the past had been systematically altered. (1.8.85)

George Orwell  "1984"

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2017, 09:28:50 AM »
Polio predates DDT and the virus is identifiable. 
I think you missed a key point of the documentary.  It is not the DDT that causes polio it is the chemicals in the spray that weakens the immune system so it makes you more vulnerable to the virus.  The incidence of polio went up when it was use and went DOWN when it was stopped.  I am sure there were many other diseases that followed the same curve.  It is classic.  You try to prevent one disease and you cause several others or make the matters worse.  Our medical system is based solely on profit.  It is NOT based on what is good for the patient.

Quote
Schools are not shut down because of massive outbreaks. 
I don't have kids in school anymore but schools around me get shut down quite often.  The kids today have a much weaker immune system than when I was a child.  Far too many chemicals used today either directly or indirectly on the population.

Documentaries like these are eye openers for me.  I did not know how the delivery system works for most drugs.  I did not know that there was such a thing as a brain barrier to keep toxins out of the brain.  I did not know that toxins are accumulative in the brain.  Now I wonder what the long term effects of a daily aspirin regiment are and if there is a connection to the incidence of Parkinson, dementia and Alzheimer which is very much on the rise today.
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Offline flyboy

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2017, 01:13:30 PM »
Now I wonder what the long term effects of a daily aspirin regiment are and if there is a connection to the incidence of Parkinson, dementia and Alzheimer which is very much on the rise today.

Aspirin is well known to cause infant death. It destroys their kidneys. In adults it just does it more slowly. Aspirin is an acid. The original herbal medicine that Bayer based his patent on was the bark of the willow tree. The cure was as bad as the disease (arthritis) and typically caused very strong stomach upset. I am told that Aspirin was grandfathered in and if it was put forth nowadays it would not be certified.

Tylenol is also very hard on kidneys and they give that out in hospitals like candy.
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Al
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Offline flyboy

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 01:44:34 PM »
In October many apples fall from my trees.  In October many birds fly over my property.  Apples fall because birds fly over.

Of course not.

I have seen prevaccine disease and complications.  Parents now never have to worry about the thing I and especially those before me had to worry about.  Every rash does not make you worry about high fevers or brain damage. 
You do not keep your kids away from everyone in the summer because of a fear of a crippling disease.  (DDT?  Really.  That's the most stupid thing I have ever heard, at least recently)   Polio predates DDT and the virus is identifiable. 
Your babies are not born deformed, dead, or otherwise compromised because mom got exposed to measles.  Schools are not shut down because of massive outbreaks. 

You don't even think about these things.  You don't have to.

Documentaries are made to present a certain point of view.  They are not facts.  They are usually propaganda, so not, I am not interested in wasting time on anti-vaxx crap.  Now, if you want to debate the number of vaccines, or that there are some that are probably not needed, that's a different subject.
Kathy,
The documentary states science. Most of the PPL interviewed are allopathic (etc.) Doctors as well as research scientists. They state peer reviewed science. Then there are the parents of vaccine injured children.

Cars can be dangerous. Not all cars are dangerous. Cars are very useful. So they build cars and highways that reduce the likelihood of danger. They don't just stick their head in the sand and hope that danger will just magically go away. That is the whole idea of science. That's why even little old ladies can hop in a car and drive to see the grandkiddies without worrying. That was/is the point of the documentary.

Computers used to constantly crash. I used to feel that my Apple computers were superior, but they used to crash also. So PPL leaned on the manufacturers and voila, they figured out how to make them so that crashes nowadays are pretty rare. They dragged their heads out of the sand because PPL leaned on them.

If a large corporation is making a barrel of money off of a product, they may not spend money on making it safer.

The drug companies spend more on marketing than they do on research. A friend of mine is a stockbroker and I remember a few years ago, him telling me that the drug companies for the first time in the better part of a century, had been knocked off of the top of the heap as far as earning/profit in the stock market. Antibiotics had basically peaked and were starting to get a bad name because of MRSA and PPLs reactions to them, basically due to Doctors prescribing them like candy and PPL are starting to get wise to the fact that drugs are basically not curing things. You are basically set up for an addiction.  There are some excellent replacements for antibiotics, but you'll never hear about them in the press because the press is owned by the folks who own the drug companies.
Cheers
Al
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Offline Acebird

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2017, 04:53:48 PM »
Tylenol is also very hard on kidneys and they give that out in hospitals like candy.
Except it is 12 bucks a pill in the hospital.
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Offline flyboy

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2017, 09:13:51 PM »
Tylenol is also very hard on kidneys and they give that out in hospitals like candy.
Except it is 12 bucks a pill in the hospital.
I'm in Canada, so it's free..... at least that's the way it seems. I pay for it with taxes.
Cheers
Al
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Offline Acebird

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 09:29:47 PM »
Nothing is ever free but that would be an interesting comparison.  In the US insurance could pay for it, ACA could pay or you could be self pay.  What would an aspirin cost in each case and what does it cost the people of Canada?  We are speaking in a hospital environment not buying it at Walmart.
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Offline flyboy

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2017, 10:12:28 PM »
Nothing is ever free but that would be an interesting comparison.  In the US insurance could pay for it, ACA could pay or you could be self pay.  What would an aspirin cost in each case and what does it cost the people of Canada?  We are speaking in a hospital environment not buying it at Walmart.
The only time I ever went to a hospital whatever they gave you, they gave you. No bill attached. It's been like that since probably the 1970s.

When I broke my wrist and fractured my hip (bicycle accident) there was no charge for anything. One call and they picked me up in an ambulance and I went right in, got a splint and then a bed by the window with an amazing view of the harbour, then they gave me the option of a plate for the wrist to speed up healing and no cast. They offered me a choice of everything from tylenol etc to morphine which I declined.

In Wally World of course you pay for an Aspirin.
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Al
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2017, 09:16:56 AM »
Why this is an issue: Andrew Wakefield, a gastroenterologist at the Royal Free Hospital in England, published a case series in the medical journal The Lancet in 1998. In this article he described 12 children with pervasive developmental disorder associated with gastrointestinal symptoms, 8 of whom had behavioral issues temporally associated with MMR vaccination via retrospective accounts by their parents or physicians [3]. Despite study authors acknowledging that this did not prove an association between the vaccine and autism, the lead author went far beyond the paper?s conclusions in a press release and ongoing interactions with the media [4,5]. Public concern on the topic grew quickly. In 2010, Dr. Wakefield?s license to practice medicine in the UK was revoked by the British General Medical Council and his study was retracted by The Lancet as evidence of serious professional misconduct mounted. Among other infractions, Wakefield was found to have ordered unnecessary invasive procedures on children without approval of the hospital ethics committee and received undeclared financial considerations from the Legal Aid Board, a group pursuing multiparty legal action for allegedly vaccine-damaged children [6-11]. In addition, he had applied for patents for vaccines to rival MMR vaccine. It was also revealed that, for most of the children in the original study, their symptoms either started well before or long after MMR vaccination. Despite the refutation of Wakefield?s findings, concern among many parents still exists.

Vaccines of interest: While the initial vaccine targeted by Dr. Wakefield was MMR, over time and as epidemiological evidence accumulated that the MMR vaccine was not associated with autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the target shifted from MMR vaccine to the preservative thimerosal as well as simultaneous vaccination with multiple vaccines.

Offline flyboy

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2017, 02:42:50 PM »
The study you refer to was done with 13 other scientists, did not say get rid of vaccines, it merely suggested that they needed further study, which is essentially what the thread about this documentary is about, not Andrew Wakefield.

Your second link, shows as a proof of the veracity of their conclusions, B. Deer, who just happens to be a third rate reporter who works for Rupert Murdoch, a British newspaper mogul whose son is on the board as a non-executive member to protect the company's reputation to the media, of Glaxo Smith Kline the vaccine manufacturer, a company that the Chinese have apparently gotten rid of and refused to do business with, because of bribery and corruption of officials in their country.

As far as what happened with his license he explains in the interviews I have linked. The other authors of the study also lost their licenses, but quite easily got their license back as it was a simple reapplication. Wakefield was harassed so much by B. Deer the man who had a huge financial reason to be an attack dog, that he decided to move to the US, where he is practicing now.

AW having a vaccine is news to me. He is a gastroenterologist. The parents of the autistic children approached him because their children had huge gastrointestinal issues. That is/was his area of expertise/research. His conclusion as well as the rest of the team was that the three vaccines when combined seem to be the problem. Basically from what I gather, the problem is that the human immune system has never had to deal with three infections simultaneously injected under the skin which bypasses all of the normal immune system. These three infections hitting simultaneously confuses or causes a reaction of some variety. His thoughts were to separate out the vaccines and administer them singly, which was a problem for the British government because it had just ordered a massive amount of the combined vaccines. He and his team basically said there was more research need as the vaccines got basically very little research before being accepted. He is not anti vaccine. His children were vaccinated.

His research was simply a case study of these victims and it is not true as you asserted that these children had problems before. You can even read it here: http://thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(97)11096-0/abstract It has retracted written across it but is readable.

If someone has enough money they can villify "Snow White". Donald Trump was easily vilified because the PPL who are worried about his intentions, own all of the media in the country/world.

Your fourth link quotes Brian Deer who I previously discredited. He in essence is the equivalent of the "baby of aliens" type of story.

Your fourth link "The Scientific Parent" is just someone shooting the breeze, providing no proof or studies and just wildly say exaggerated baseless statements.

The last link is a site which is paid for by the medical community that basically makes a living off of vaccines. Notice that they start off saying that " The American Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC, the World Health Organization, and the Institute of Medicine all agree that there's probably no relationship between autism and vaccines." That is the whole point of the documentary. There is doubt and it should be studied rather than sticking the head in the sand.

https://soundcloud.com/user-507883655/4-andrew-wakefield-interview-how-to-end-the-autism-epidemic
 http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/04/10/wakefield-interview.aspx
http://www.ageofautism.com/dr-andrew-wakefield/
https://mediamatters.org/video/2016/04/21/fox-provides-platform-discredited-doctor-claim-cdc-hiding-evidence-vaccines-cause-autism/210015

There is lots of interviews of AW out there if you want to look.
Cheers
Al
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Offline Acebird

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2017, 05:32:57 PM »
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/Vaccines_Do_Not_Cause_Autism.htm
http://www.immunize.org/talking-about-vaccines/mmr.asp
https://www.thescientificparent.org/vaccines-dont-cause-autism-but-thats-not-the-point/
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/searching-for-answers/vaccines-autism

So far I haven't come up with any verbiage in these links that contradicts what was said in the first video the OP posted.  The video if you watched it was about how metals such as aluminum and mercury are used in the vaccines and that they get through the brain barrier and stay in the brain.  The vaccine itself is not the issue it is the delivery by injection.  Nothing to do with the gut.  An injection goes directly into the blood stream and up to the brain.  Andrew Wakefield could have been all wet in his theory about the gut.  That doesn't mean this other study is.
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2017, 07:08:49 PM »
The study you refer to was done with 13 other scientists, did not say get rid of vaccines, it merely suggested that they needed further study, which is essentially what the thread about this documentary is about, not Andrew Wakefield.

Most of the coauthers withdrew their support of the study because it was flawed and Wakefield. Wakefield also had financial interest in proving his link.

Your second link, shows as a proof of the veracity of their conclusions, B. Deer, who just happens to be a third rate reporter who works for Rupert Murdoch, a British newspaper mogul whose son is on the board as a non-executive member to protect the company's reputation to the media, of Glaxo Smith Kline the vaccine manufacturer, a company that the Chinese have apparently gotten rid of and refused to do business with, because of bribery and corruption of officials in their country.

As far as what happened with his license he explains in the interviews I have linked. The other authors of the study also lost their licenses, but quite easily got their license back as it was a simple reapplication. Wakefield was harassed so much by B. Deer the man who had a huge financial reason to be an attack dog, that he decided to move to the US, where he is practicing now.

AW having a vaccine is news to me. He is a gastroenterologist. The parents of the autistic children approached him because their children had huge gastrointestinal issues. That is/was his area of expertise/research. His conclusion as well as the rest of the team was that the three vaccines when combined seem to be the problem. Basically from what I gather, the problem is that the human immune system has never had to deal with three infections simultaneously injected under the skin which bypasses all of the normal immune system. These three infections hitting simultaneously confuses or causes a reaction of some variety. His thoughts were to separate out the vaccines and administer them singly, which was a problem for the British government because it had just ordered a massive amount of the combined vaccines. He and his team basically said there was more research need as the vaccines got basically very little research before being accepted. He is not anti vaccine. His children were vaccinated........... His research was flawed and wrong. No follow up research could produce his results. He is a crank that has hurt children.

His research was simply a case study of these victims and it is not true as you asserted that these children had problems before. You can even read it here: http://thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(97)11096-0/abstract It has retracted written across it but is readable.

If someone has enough money they can villify "Snow White". Donald Trump was easily vilified because the PPL who are worried about his intentions, own all of the media in the country/world.

Your fourth link quotes Brian Deer who I previously discredited. He in essence is the equivalent of the "baby of aliens" type of story.............. You discredit him because you don't like his stories and who he works for but he did report an accurate story.

Your fourth link "The Scientific Parent" is just someone shooting the breeze, providing no proof or studies and just wildly say exaggerated baseless statements.

The last link is a site which is paid for by the medical community that basically makes a living off of vaccines. Notice that they start off saying that " The American Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC, the World Health Organization, and the Institute of Medicine all agree that there's probably no relationship between autism and vaccines." That is the whole point of the documentary. There is doubt and it should be studied rather than sticking the head in the sand..................................... Yes lets not listen to medical scientists unless it is the lone one who conducted a study that could not be repeated and used flawed data. https://web.archive.org/web/20110814140548/http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683643.ece
http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-retraction.htm

WE don't need to study vaccines more. We need to stop the nonsense that vaccines cause autism.

https://soundcloud.com/user-507883655/4-andrew-wakefield-interview-how-to-end-the-autism-epidemic
 http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/04/10/wakefield-interview.aspx
http://www.ageofautism.com/dr-andrew-wakefield/
https://mediamatters.org/video/2016/04/21/fox-provides-platform-discredited-doctor-claim-cdc-hiding-evidence-vaccines-cause-autism/210015

There is lots of interviews of AW out there if you want to look............... No thanks. I don't need to look at what one lone crank says about things he makes up.

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2017, 07:09:38 PM »
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html
http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/Vaccines_Do_Not_Cause_Autism.htm
http://www.immunize.org/talking-about-vaccines/mmr.asp
https://www.thescientificparent.org/vaccines-dont-cause-autism-but-thats-not-the-point/
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/searching-for-answers/vaccines-autism

So far I haven't come up with any verbiage in these links that contradicts what was said in the first video the OP posted.  The video if you watched it was about how metals such as aluminum and mercury are used in the vaccines and that they get through the brain barrier and stay in the brain.  The vaccine itself is not the issue it is the delivery by injection.  Nothing to do with the gut.  An injection goes directly into the blood stream and up to the brain.  Andrew Wakefield could have been all wet in his theory about the gut.  That doesn't mean this other study is.

The links state that vaccines are safe and we don't need to stop vaccinating

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2017, 09:02:10 PM »
The links state that vaccines are safe and we don't need to stop vaccinating
Well I guess that is what you are going to do.
Brian Cardinal
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2017, 11:41:12 AM »

Offline bwallace23350

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2017, 02:47:16 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/21/mmr-vaccine-autism_n_7109142.html

Thought this article would be of interest to this discussion

Offline Acebird

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2017, 08:56:22 AM »
I would like to see the data.  There is a world of difference between a 5 year old and an infant.  I don't think this study differentiated that.
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Offline bwallace23350

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2017, 01:28:17 PM »
I wish I could access it but I can't. Most of these articles and publications like this are behind a paywall.

Offline Dallasbeek

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Re: The Truth About Vaccines
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2017, 08:23:09 PM »
"Liberty lives in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no laws, no court can save it." - Judge Learned Hand, 1944

 

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