Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum
BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: sean on January 02, 2007, 06:41:51 pm
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I have been reading honey yield figures of 100lbs and up what size colonies are we talking about. i am currently at 2 deeps for most of mine with a few at three deeps our honey period out here is about 6mths but based on my guesstimaton yields areaveraging about 100lbs. This seem low
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You should read about unlimited brood nest on Michael Bush's web page it will help you have big strong colonies
kirko
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As Finsky often points out, the yield has as much to do with forage as with strong colonies. Using the same techniques, some years I get 300 pounds of honey from every hive. Some years I get nothing. It depends on when it rains, how much, when the late frost and the early frost come etc.
It also helps to manage the colony to have a good population when the main flow hits, but if the main flow flops, it won't help a bit.
Checkerboarding looks promising:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesexperiment.htm
Unlimited brood nest is helpful:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesulbn.htm
Managing them so they don't swarm helps a lot:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm
Cut down splits can increase the yield a lot:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm
A lot of things have to do with the timing.
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I understand that. But for a hive to produce 300lbs of honey in one year what size hive are we talking about. I agree that weather, access to foods sources and all that plays a part but i am interested in the colony itself. How strong doues that colony have to be, are we talking about a colony that consists of 3, 4, 5 boxes high, do you mean medium or deep supers, how long is your honey season
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Had one yard on a raspberry farm, some 20 years ago - 204 kilo was their average!
Nine full-size supers high. Could have had more, but did not have enough boxes on, when went on a holiday for two weeks. They plastered every nook and cranny with burr comb and filled with honey. What a back-breaker that was!
Regards,
Trot
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My biggest average yield has been 260 pounds. Two years later it was 70 pounds in same places.
One year really waked me. I had in very good place where I had got over 200 pounds from every hive. Then average yield dropped to 40 pound and next year the same.
I explained to myself that reason was hot summer and cold August. BUT 3 miles from this site again every hive brought over 200 pounds per hive. Two summers ago happened almost same thing.
I realized that in every place there was not enough honey for so many hives. I dropped hive number per site from 10 to 1-4. And I make work to find several new places where are 2-3 main flow plants.
Now during 4 summers yield per hive jumped 80% and yield differencies between hives and hive sites are much smaller than before. I realized that my own hives competed with each other on same pastures.
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You are so right Finsky. Of course yield depends very much on weather but like you wisely say: "Your own hives were competing with each other for the same pasture!"
It is much better to spread them around more.
Than, some seasons are so good that just don't make much of a difference. Although each pasture only supports so many hives. . . . .
Regards,
Trot
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. Although each pasture only supports so many hives. . . . .
When I take hives to outer pastures, mainly to canola fields, bees are there 2 months. But canola bloom only 2 weeks. What bees do 6 weeks? Those 6 more weeks they fly long distances and search for nectar.
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Had one yard on a raspberry farm, some 20 years ago - 204 kilo was their average!
Nine full-size supers high. Could have had more, but did not have enough boxes on, when went on a holiday for two weeks. They plastered every nook and cranny with burr comb and filled with honey. What a back-breaker that was!
Regards,
Trot
Ok, Nine full size supers high. Are you coming straight from the ground or do you use a stand. Out here we have to use stands because of frogs so most colonies are starting from about 2-2 1/2 high and the most we go up is about 4 boxes high. so i guess that accounts for the difference in yields.
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Yes sean, from the ground. Well, they sat on a 2x6 double stands. But than I'm a bit over 6' 3'' tall, so 20 odd years ago that was about as high as I would lift a full super.
Today, I too have them on stands, (skunks, raccoons, etc) and at my age I will not/can't
lift them that high anymore.
Regards,
Trot
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ok thanks trot. well as i had mentioned most people here go about 4 deep boxes high more if they are using shallow. well actually most farms i have gone to most i have seen is 3. i have only deeps right now but i may get 1 or 2 shallows since the colonies i bought came with a few shallow frames in the deep boxes.
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>I understand that. But for a hive to produce 300lbs of honey in one year what size hive are we talking about.
Size in boxes? Bees? What?
Every year my hives average about the same size, in bees, but my yield still varies from nothing to 300 pounds.
If you want huge yields you need to field a huge force of bees on a really good flow. That means either inciting early foraging by removing open brood from the hive, or maximizing the population by combining two hives (better yet do a cut down split/combine where you remove all the open brood from two side by side hives and put them 10 yards away or more and combine the rest into one) or run a two queen hive. The two queen hive would need the second queen back in April (here) to do any good in June (here) on the main flow.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestwoqueenhive.htm
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mb i assume that your yield varies based on food available. but my question was being centered more around the number of boxes needed to produce a yield of 300lbs whether for eg. you needed 5 supers along with 3 brood chambers. trot kinda answered cvause i am again assuming that for 9 boxes high you are looking at about 4 boxes just for brood.
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mb i assume that your yield varies based on food available. but my question was being centered more around the number of boxes needed to produce a yield of 300lbs whether for eg. you needed 5 supers along with 3 brood chambers. trot kinda answered cvause i am again assuming that for 9 boxes high you are looking at about 4 boxes just for brood.
First you must have all queen such that they lay in 2 deeps. It is not easy. You may put two small hive together and so you have one queen's brood only to nursed with 2 hives foragers.
Then you have 3 brood chambers + 4-5 supers (medium)
Then you must have a good pasture. If you have good pastures very near, it will not succeed.
IF you have unlimited pastures and weather is favourable, bees get here in Finland those 300 lbs in 2-3 weeks from canola or from fireweed or from raspberry.
Last summer I had 50 hectars canola around hives and hives were only 5 pieces. They got on average about 120 lbs honey. It was really dry and hot.
But in some places when flowers stopped blooming bees start to carry honeydew. Yield was tremendous and capped from top to toe. We have no rain and aphid's juice accumulated on branches. It is really good stuff.
My nabourg beekeeper got yield on average 280 lbs per hive. He has hives near bog area where water is always near surface. Summer was extremely hot and yield period was 6 weeks. Normally yield period is here 1-3 weeks when surplus comes into hives. And if you leave 50% of your yield into hive there it is, but I know no one who does that here. He must be sick if he does.
Normally our professionals talk about 80 lbs per hive. They like to use 4-deep system because it is friendly to body if you have 600 hives and you go them through all the time a couple of minutes per hive. Capped honey box off and empty combs in.
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Ok thanks. I think our problem out here is that while we have the variety of vegetation we lack the quantity. There are very few farms of any significant size and those that are that large are mostly into sugarcane cultivation. the rest are quite small and most are into animal rearing. In fact beekeeping for the most part is done on captured/borowed land and one beekeeper will have his hives in a number of locations usually on uncultivated land.
I am on a 5 acre plot which i am trying to grow some stuff for the bees as well so hopefully in 2 or so years my yields should begin increasing. I am planting logwood(the blue mountain coffee of honey) bullet wood(which some say is even better than logwood) sunflowers, pumpkins, ackee, and guineps plus buttercups.
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>my question was being centered more around the number of boxes needed to produce a yield of 300lbs whether for eg. you needed 5 supers along with 3 brood chambers.
Boxes don't make honey. Bees do. And they make it on a good flow. Without the good flow you won't get good yeilds. Without a good population of bees you won't get good yeilds. No matter how many boxes you put on. You put on the boxes they need. In a 300 pound year, they are stacked up until I can't get the top one on without a ladder or at least some kind of step.
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granted. i should have specified boxes and bees.
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If you are using medium supers figure 45 lbs of honey for a 10 frame hive per super. That equates to approximately 7 supers for 300 lbs of honey. I think this more directly answers your original question.
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If you are using medium supers figure 45 lbs of honey for a 10 frame hive per super. That equates to approximately 7 supers for 300 lbs of honey. I think this more directly answers your original question.
That 45 pound per super is really the top. 35 is more normal. When you extract, 20% of honey will stay on cell walls.
But when you have 3 medium super on hive and bees are filling them, you need 3 super where combs are empty for nectar. Those 3 capped shall be taken away as fast as it is possible and extract. During heavy flow good give get 10-15 lbs per day and one super will be filled in two days. 3 supers in one week, roughly.
When honey flow is good, from big hive shall be extracted capped honey every week. If weather is bad, you need to do nothing. But you need prepare youself to do what is needed. Otherwise opportunity is missed.
You say that it is nothing. I have allready enough! - But what is idea to take care hives all the year around and when good will really happens, you say, no thank you!
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Ahh Finsky, the great divide between the professional beekeeper and the hobby beekeeper!
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Sean, you mentioned planting buttercups. We have that species that grows like the wildfire out here in our wet Lower Mainland area. I try to eradicate this as much as possible because it overtakes everything. I pull it out continuously. We have so much other stuff that is good for the bees that I can't be bothered to let the buttercup take huge hold. I actually did not realize that there was any benefit to this noxious weed though. I have always observed the buttercup to see if any beneficials are ever using it for forage, never see any insect of any sort on it. Maybe your buttercup is different than ours. I understand there are about 500 species, though. LOL. Great day. Cindi
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6710/bttrcupcreepka9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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I read somewhere that they were not any good for bees.
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It looks to me like it could get pretty complicated.I just leave mine in the same place year around .They did real good last year I prevented swarming with unlimited brood space.
kirko
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Sean, you mentioned planting buttercups. We have that species that grows like the wildfire out here in our wet Lower Mainland area. I try to eradicate this as much as possible because it overtakes everything. I pull it out continuously. We have so much other stuff that is good for the bees that I can't be bothered to let the buttercup take huge hold. I actually did not realize that there was any benefit to this noxious weed though. I have always observed the buttercup to see if any beneficials are ever using it for forage, never see any insect of any sort on it. Maybe your buttercup is different than ours. I understand there are about 500 species, though. LOL. Great day. Cindi
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6710/bttrcupcreepka9.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
cindi i will take a picture and forward it to you. i am only going by the name my mother gave me, but she has observed that the bees are always on them. I am trying to get as much stuff around as possible as there is a cane field quite near by and although i know i cant stop them i figure the closer they are to a different source of food the less sucrose i will have in my honey.