Building Plans for Foundationless Frames

[eri]

Does anyone have a sketch (or description) of dimensions for foundationless frames for Langs? I'm thinking the frame design could be considerably simplified from frames designed to accept foundation. I looked at some of the principles of frame spacing posted here and elsewhere, and at the sketch for "Koover" frames, but I'm still not clear about what they might look like.

I'm thinking that the grooves in the top and bottom bars could be omitted, that all sides of the frame could be the same size glued and pin-nailed together, and the top bar notched outwardly on each end to provide spacing between the frames. Top bar comb guides could be made from the material removed between the notches (perhaps tabs is a better word), stretched and glued on the underside between the end bars.

Thanks --

[Eshu]

I don't have plans, but it is so much easier just to buy frames than to build them.  For foundationless frames, I get grooved top bars (so I can glue guides in them) with solid bottom bars.  Some suppliers like Western Bee Supply offers frames with solid bottom bars.  Some suppliers will special order solid top bars as well, but as I said I like having the groove.

[Natalie]

eri,
        I bought the solid bottom bars and end bars from Dadant for cheap money per bundles of 100 and someone made me the topbars with the angle built in, all in one piece they are very easy to assemble.
I like that there are no grooves and I also do not have to deal with gluing anything in either.
I put them in the hive without so much as any beeswax rubbed on them and they took right to them and have built frame after frame of beautiful, all natural wax comb.

[annette]

eri,
        I bought the solid bottom bars and end bars from Dadant for cheap money per bundles of 100 and someone made me the topbars with the angle built in, all in one piece they are very easy to assemble.
I like that there are no grooves and I also do not have to deal with gluing anything in either.
I put them in the hive without so much as any beeswax rubbed on them and they took right to them and have built frame after frame of beautiful, all natural wax comb.

Without any starter strips??  I didn't know they would do it straight without something to start on.  OH wait they have an angle on them??? do you have a pic to share??

[Robo]

Sounds like she is describing something like this

[Natalie]

Yup, those are it robo. Thanks for the pics since I didn't have any to show her.
I love them, they work great and no hassles to deal with.

[annette]

That looks great. Much better than having to constantly deal with the starter strips.

[eri]

Yes! Something like that photo. Natalie, you say the top bar is solid with the angle built in - is the angle an inverted triangle? Also, if you remember, could you post the Dadant catalog number? I looked through it and wasn't sure which frames you were talking about.

I was thinking about making some kind of spacing tool so I could adjust the bars to 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 on center as desired, but that may be too ambitious.

Thanks, all.

[Natalie]

Here you go
Dadant:
Solid bottom bars-B83210C   $14.45 per bundle of 100
End Bars-            B82310C   $11.90 per buncle of 100

The reason you couldn't find the parts number listed in the catalog is because they don't publish them but I am not sure why.
I called them and told them that I see that they offer them but couldn't find the numbers and the woman searched it out for me.
Remember to order double the amount of end bars  per the bottom bars when you order.
They are very very simple to assemble.
My top bar is all one piece but it is like an inverted triangle.
That is the toughest part if you are going to make them yourself, I had someone else do it for me but you could also go buy the topbars and get the angled moulding at the Home Depot or one of those stores and glue those on.
I have seen that mentioned several times on the forums and seems like the simplest way to go.
You will love these frames, no popsicle sticks and all that plus you don't have the all those grooves for the mites or wax moths to hide when you use a solid bottom bar.
Not that they won't find other places to hide but it does give them alot less places when you consider how many bars are in a hive.
Good luck with it.

[Ross]

I recognize that picture  :-D

I start with standard wedge top bars and rip them at 45 degrees on the table saw with my little sled...


very safe since the blade isn't exposed....


Looks like the middle one when done, works great.....

[manfre]

I broke off the wedge, rotated it 90 degrees and then stabled it back on. The bees have started to draw it out nice and straight.

[BingalingBees]

Do I need to take apart my frames and rotate the bottom bar so the groove is down?

[KD4MOJ]

I recognize that picture  :-D

I start with standard wedge top bars and rip them at 45 degrees on the table saw with my little sled...
 

Well since this thread has been resurected, curious about the sled... what's on the bottom?

...DOUG
KD4MOJ

I wanna make some of those bars!