Need help with queenless hive

[Drone]

Hey all,

I just did an inspection and I discovered that one of my 3 hives is queenless and has been for some time. Lots of bees, but no brood whatsoever.

This hive has also been overrun with wax worms and hive beetles. It looks like this hive is doomed.

I want to combine these bees (2 deeps) with my 2 other hives, but I'm afraid of introducing worms and beetles. Is there a "clean" way to get the bees into another hive?

Thanks!

-John

[asprince]

Drone,
You will get lots of good advice here. I am not as experienced as most on this forum, but I have lost hives this year from wax worms, hive beetles, and fire ants. All were lost due to the hive becoming weak.

I would shake the bees off the frames in front of your other hives and let them find another hive. I would then freeze the frames from the infected hive. This would kill all the bad creatures. I would then thaw and place on top of the other hives for clean up or store for later use.

Steve   

[BeeHopper]

Drone,

What do you mean by " Lots of Bees ". If most are drones, I would not bother to add them to a stronger hive, drones will be discarded soon anyways, why make your stronger hive work more. My 2 cents.

[Drone]

BeeHopper - I didn't see many drones, just workers. Lots of workers. 2 deeps full.

Asprice - I thought about that but I just figured that they would return to the old hive site. I also wouldn't expect them to freely enter another hive. At least not without a full payload of nectar/honey.

I'm really confused about what might have happened to my queen. Everything was looking great on the last inspection about a month ago.

[BeeHopper]

BeeHopper - I didn't see many drones, just workers. Lots of workers. 2 deeps full.

Asprice - I thought about that but I just figured that they would return to the old hive site. I also wouldn't expect them to freely enter another hive. At least not without a full payload of nectar/honey.

I'm really confused about what might have happened to my queen. Everything was looking great on the last inspection about a month ago.

Drone,

More experienced Beeks will chime in. Sounds like you can do the newspaper method to add the weak hives to the stronger, please make  sure the pests are not included. Good luck  :-D

[Understudy]

If you can throw a frame of brood (eggs, young larva) in the hive from one of your other hives.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[Drone]

Brendhan - I'm thinking it may be too late in the season to let them make a new queen. I'm in NC and I don't see as many drones as I did a few weeks ago.

If they did make a queen and she mates and starts laying, what are the chances that they will be strong enough to win the SHB/wax moth war that they are currently losing?

[Understudy]

If you have to cut them down to a nuc with 2 frames honey, 1 frame pollen and 2 frames brood.

Cutting down the hive size is a great way to keep a weak hive in a strong position against wax moth and other pests.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[Brian D. Bray]

When i look at the calendar I think there should little or no brood this time of year--especially if a dearth had occurred in your area during the summer.  Just because a hive has no brood does not mean it is queenless--especialy in the fall.  I would take a partial fram of brood/eggs from another hive that still might have some and see what the bees do with it.  Place it smack dab in the middle of the brood box.

[asprince]

How bad is the worm and beetle problem? If the hive continues to weaken, the wax worms and SHB will take over and the bees will leave on their on.

Are wax moths and SHB active during a mild southern winter?

Steve

[Michael Bush]

>This hive has also been overrun with wax worms and hive beetles. It looks like this hive is doomed.

Yes, it sounds doomed.  It's hard to image that there are very many bees if they are failing to guard it.  I would shake them in front of the other hives and, if you can find room, freeze the frames in a garbage sack in the freezer.  If not, then just let them go and clean them up later.

[Drone]

Thanks for the responses!

Brendhan - I'm thinking of knocking them down to one deep. I want to remove the frames that are holding wax worms. Most of the worm damage is in the bottom deep body.

Were you suggesting the nuc for queen rearing? If so, I think it's too late. I'm just not seeing any drones.

Brian - That would be great if the queen was still there. This was my favorite hive. The bees have a beautiful golden color and actually produced a good bit of honey this year. I wanted to make splits from this one in the spring.

Steve - I've been dealing with lots of SHB's all summer on all 3 hives but this is the only hive that I can actually see worms and webs in the comb. I removed 4 of the worst frames when I inspected and just replaced them with frames of foundation. This is my first year so I'm not sure how the pests will handle the mild NC winters.

Michael - There is a surprisingly large number of bees, and they are flying and acting as if nothing is wrong. I had assumed they were queenless because of the lack of brood and eggs. I hate to see them go down without a fight so I think I'm going to consolidate down to one deep, look closely for the queen, and remove/replace all of the infested comb.

If I can't locate the queen I may add a frame of brood from another hive to see what they do with it. If they are queenless, then I don't think I have any option other than combining with another hive.

I'll feel better about combining if I have removed the worm infested comb first.

If you have any more insight, please share. I'm still pretty new at this but I have learned a lot from this site.

Thanks!

-John

[tillie]

Are you doing anything in your hives to address the SHB problem?  There are a number of non-pesticide ways - including the vinegar trap that goes into a frame and the beetles drown themselves in it or the Sonny-Mel sandwich box trap that lures them in with a wax moth type lure and they then drown in FGMO.

There are many previous posts in this forum on both type traps and on my blog as well.

Linda T in Atlanta

[Drone]

Hey Linda,

I was aggressively trapping beetles using the frame traps with apple cider vinegar. I would also find and crush lots of them hiding in the gaps between the top bars and the super and also in the bottom bar slots under the traps.

I hate hive beetles. I hate them with a passion. It has become quite personal.

I also tried the sandwich box trap, but in one of the hives I had a few bees getting through the 3/16" holes. I pulled the traps after a half day. I'm not sure where I found the design that used 3/16" (0.1875"), but that hole is clearly too large. I'll try again with smaller holes; I'm thinking 9/64" should work.

-John

[sean]

I am like drone i go through my hives, hunt down the beetles and kill them its time consuming and i know i will haveto find another way shortly but for the time being thats my method i tried the sonny and mel trap but it didnt work for me (dont know if the container i used was too big).

For the immediate problem with the wax moth, i would scavenge some frames from the other 2 hives and freeze the infested ones then give them to the other hives(presumably they are stronger)

[Cindi]

John, sounds like you hate these pests, just like I do the yellowjackets.  And the earwigs, they are hideous little things too and man do they pack a whollop when they pinch you, I usually squish them as soon as I see them.  Today I was about to squish an earwig and it gave me a bite (pinch), whatever it was, it felt like a bee sting of the worst degree, I actually double-looked to make sure it wasn't a bee that stung me.  It was a blasted earwig, a great big one, probably growing huge eating pollen, eeeks!!!!  I can't stand them!!!!!  Eerie, eeky ugly, hideous, I am sure there are many more adjectives for these gross things.  Poor little bees, all they want to do is make a great home and store food for the wintertime.  Oh brother!!!  Have a wonderful and beautiful night and day, we're lovin' this life we're livin'.  Cindi

[Old Timer]

a few ways to do it.

1. order a mated queen overnight right NOW. shake all bees onto foundation, extracted comb, empty frames, etc.. and place this where the hive currently is. take your pest infested frames and freeze overnight. tomorrow after they thaw, shake the bees off the foundation and back on the comb. maybe your mated queen has arrived and you can put her in there too. it seems that two deeps full of bees would keep the moths at bay, so maybe there is not as many bees as there seems. maybe downsizing might help. i've never had shb, so i won't offer advice about that other than freezing.

2. you can do the shake and freeze as described above, then add some open brood after you put the comb back in. after 4 days go in and cut out any capped cells, these larva were fed jelly too late and the uncapped cells will provide better queens. i still have drones in my hives although they have been getting kicked out for over three weeks now and i always tear drone cells open to look for varoa, did this saturday. the disadvantage to this is that you won't have a laying queen for over three weeks, but you can always add a few frames of brood from the other hive over the next few weeks. the disadvantage to adding brood from your other hives is that you will weaken them. i'd order a queen if i could.

3. if you want to shake them out in front of the other hives and you are worried that they will go back to their old spot, seal them up and put them in a cool dark place for three days. they will have to reorientate themselves after the three days. then shake them out in front of the other hives and freeze the pest ridden comb before adding to your other hives.

4. you could make a nuc out of them as some one else mentioned.

i hope you can get it straightened out.