When is the perfect time of year to pinch a queen?

[TwT]

most old timers use to do this in the dearth months right before fall flows started, they use to get queens that was up to snuff and a bunch of hive that didn't re queen themselves right was combined before winter, 

so this didn't help either? those are the times I know this was done

[bailey]

ok what does logic say about timing?  you want a large supply of eggs, food, and workers.
if you are going to pinch a queen the best time to get a good mated queen would be just before your main flow.
lots of workers food and drones.

i wont bother you with all the things that could go wrong with your hive and honey production with this advise i will just answer your question.

good luck
bailey

[SgtMaj]

most old timers use to do this in the dearth months right before fall flows started, they use to get queens that was up to snuff and a bunch of hive that didn't re queen themselves right was combined before winter, 

so this didn't help either? those are the times I know this was done

No no, you answered the question... and that makes perfect sense to me as well.  I was thinking just before the fall flow starts, but I wasn't sure if there was another time, such as just after the spring flow ends when they would naturally take a break from brood rearing anyway, that if caught at just the right time would be less of a disruption to the normal hive cycles.

[Robo]

So to recap, the question I asked was not about how to prevent a hive from swarming, but about when the best time of year to lose a queen and replace via an emergency queen? 

Perhaps I was misled by this statement

Assume the queen is good she's just getting pinched so that it'll be a young queen going into winter so that (hopefully) the hive won't try to do a reproductive swarm the next spring.

My last word of advice.  If you want to talk hypothetical, then say so up front and you will get a lot less contention from folks.    With statements like these, it sure makes it look like you are planning to do it.

I already have more than one hive to work with.  But I'd rather have fewer strong hives with less risk of a swarm than more weak hives and greater risk of a swarm.

By that time heading them off at the pass will mean having to do a split, which I wouldn't mind except it means that I'll have two weak hives for every hive that would have otherwise been a strong hive, and I'd rather just have a strong hive to work the flow.  Besides, I'm lazy and that sounds like work.

As far as answering your "hypothetical" question, with the details you have given, the answer is "It depends".   It depends on what your goal is,  maximum honey production,  best quality replacement queen,  reduce swarming, strongest hive for winter, etc.    But I will say, there are better methods for each of these goals than emergency queens.

[Kathyp]

the question you asked was answered in all ways possible.  pick the one that works for you.  if you want someone to come over and do it for you, look on the map and see who is closer.

But I'd rather have fewer strong hives with less risk of a swarm than more weak hives and greater risk of a swarm.

strong hive are the ones that swarm most often.  if you want strong hives, learn the signs of swarming and take action.  even then, you may not be able to prevent swarming.  so goes beekeeping.

i see no point in killing a good queen.  if you insist on doing it, first be very clear about why and then then figure out when.  if you can not define your own parameters for action, no one here can do it for you.

[SgtMaj]

ok what does logic say about timing?  you want a large supply of eggs, food, and workers.
if you are going to pinch a queen the best time to get a good mated queen would be just before your main flow.
lots of workers food and drones.

i wont bother you with all the things that could go wrong with your hive and honey production with this advise i will just answer your question.

good luck
bailey

If done just before the main flow, would there be enough brood to make the most of the flow?  As for drone numbers, I am thinking that some drone comb might be able to artificially raise drone numbers at different times of the year until the workers get to the point of kicking them out of the hive.  As far as eggs go, how many would you say is necessary to guarantee emergency queens be made?  As for food, I would imagine anytime near either flow should be good, right?

[SgtMaj]

the question you asked was answered in all ways possible.  pick the one that works for you.  if you want someone to come over and do it for you, look on the map and see who is closer.

I didn't even say I was going to do it, it was just a question.

[SgtMaj]

As far as answering your "hypothetical" question, with the details you have given, the answer is "It depends".   It depends on what your goal is,  maximum honey production,  best quality replacement queen,  reduce swarming, strongest hive for winter, etc.    But I will say, there are better methods for each of these goals than emergency queens.

I would say the question is trying to get at the best balance of all those.  But let's change the scenario so that there's less confusion... When is the best time of year to accidentally kill a queen without realizing it?

[Michael Bush]

Two weeks before the flow would be the best time to do it and maximize your yields.  Personally I don't pinch queens.  I let the bees take care of such things.

[buzzbee]

If done just before the main flow, would there be enough brood to make the most of the flow?  As for drone numbers, I am thinking that some drone comb might be able to artificially raise drone numbers at different times of the year until the workers get to the point of kicking them out of the hive.  As far as eggs go, how many would you say is necessary to guarantee emergency queens be made?  As for food, I would imagine anytime near either flow should be good, right?
[/quote]
24 to 25 days for a emergency to be raised to start laying. When eggs are laid,42 days till bees are foraging. Guess you better know when the flow is,the overlap could kill any chanced for a good honey crop unless there is an awful bunch of brood before the pinching. Another example of why a mated queen is better.