Queen Excluder: To use or not to use

[bee-nuts]

I would like opinions on weather I should use queen excluder's on my hive to keep honey separate from brood or not. 
I have read that If they build a honey bridge at the top of second super that it is unlikely that the queen will lay eggs above it.  I also heard that the queen will just work her way right up the middle as she lays her eggs.  I don't want to have to buy any more equipment then I need this year.  I have bought hives, bees, some tools of the trade, and bear fence already this year.  Do I need to add Queen Excluder's to my list of things to order?

Thanks for any info BEEK's

[doak]

They are handy for other uses. I use only when the queen insist on continuing to come up in the honey super. Which is not often. That is one reason I reverse my brood chambers, if needed, just before the main nectar flow. Which has just started here. Central Ga. USA.
With her on bottom and the brood is now in the upper deep, which is mixed capped and uncapped.
My Flow is very slow by the first of June so I don't have much trouble with the queen coming up after then. I also drill a 5/8 inch hole in the front of the super just below the hand hold when using an
ex-cluder. Or have some other type upper entrance.
I,ll  say it again, what ever suits you and your bees the best. I do what seems to be best for my bees and me. :)doak

[trapperbob]

I don,t normally use them but if you get some brood in a super and want to extract it but do not wish to kill the brood first find the queen and put her in the brood boxes and slide the excluder on then put the super or supers that have brood in them on top let the brood hatch then extract. This way her majesty dose'nt keep laying in the super and you get to keep the brood. The excluder seems to be a personal preferance. I have found that most of the time they lay drones mostly if thats the case consider it varroa control and remove the drone brood and extract. :-D

[Michael Bush]

First, I've never understood what is so bad about the queen being able to lay instead of swarm.  So some of it is in the super.  Don't harvest that.

Second, I think the main reason the queen lays in the supers is because there isn't enough drone comb in the brood nest.  Let them have some and you'll see less brood in the supers.

Third, making the bees squeeze through something they don't really fit through every trip to store honey is very counter productive and damaging to their wings.

Fourth, it takes a very talented beekeeper to use an excluder to their advantage at all.

[bee-nuts]

Thanks Beeks:

I guess I am just going to go without them and see what the bees do.  I do have one drone comb frame in each hive.  I am planing on using these to watch for Varroa mite numbers and to control there numbers.  From what experience I do have with bees, they usually fill frames on side of brood box with honey.  If she lays in my honey I should be able to swap them.  I live in Norther Wisconsin and plan on leaving three deeps anyway for the coming winter.  My only real concern is damaging the queen when looking through frames.

Again, thanks for info Beeks

[doak]

The large swarm I hived last Sunday, 7 days ago, they filled 2 deeps and a medium super.
With a queen ex cluder ( not a cut down one) above the second deep, they are packing honey in the super like mad, with no pollen mixed in. Of course all boxes had drawn comb. :)doak

[doak]

Forgot to mention, while I had it open, thought I'd take a look and see how the bees were negotiating the ex cluder. There was a larger number of bees in the honey super than they were when I checked it a few days before. This is a super I failed to put an upper hole in.
I held one frame out for a few minutes to see how the bees mastered coming through.
I did not detect much struggling. They are filling the super.
I also noticed another thing, These look to be smaller bees than the Italians I had a few years back.
But like I have said before, I have none of the ones that came from the Italian queens.
Those died out from what appeared to be CCD. 5 out of my 7 feral  colonies survived, the two went by natural die off symptons. the other 5 of the 7 out of  12 were from the new Italian queens.
Go figure.doak 

[bee-nuts]

Hey Doak,

I think im going to try both ways and see what I like best.   I also have a question for you or for anybody who can answer it.  Can a Queen bee pass through a bees escape placed in an inner cover?  Just curious.  Also I an wondering how well these bee escapes work for harvesting honey?  I dont want to use a fume board and would rather not brush and knock bees off frames all day.

[doak]

I never tried the large escapes. The small one works well on a cool night when the go into a cluster.
Just make sure you don't have any holes above the escape.
Should get the bees out within 48 hours. Make sure to keep check on it, because that is when the wax moth and ants will move in, when there is no bees to guard it. SHB also
Very seldom gets that cool at honey harvest time here.
As for the queen passing through, I can't say about that.

I have used an ex cluder to find a queen. Put a box on a bottom board with frames in it. Put the queen ex cluder on and then an empty box on, set the box you suspect the queen is in and start removing the frames one by one, Brush the bees off and place the frame in an extra box.
When finished, the bees will go through the ex cluder, because there is nothing in the empty box for them. After most all the bees pass through the ex cluder there should be a small cluster of bees in a corner, the queen should be in that cluster. If not go to the next box, etc.
Found more than one or two this way.

If I "have" to find the queen, after I fail to locate her the third time the normal way, that is how I do it.

[bee-nuts]

Thanks Doak,

Ok, so bee escapes work better when night temps are cool enough for bees to move into a cluster.  So in summer are they a valuable tool at all?  Say I have a super full of honey that is caped and move it to the top over a bee escape and place a empty box with drawn comb below.  Would this be a waste of time in July?  Better than doing nothing?

Thanks again.

[doak]

If you have a good nectar flow when doing this and the super is 95+ percent capped. Then I see no reason why it shouldn't work. May have to give it 48 hours.doak :)

[bee-nuts]

Ok Doak,

Thanks a lot.  I really appreciate it!!