Newbie and package question

[Paraplegic Racehorse]

I am building up my first several beehives this year. I get to start entirely from scratch! I'll be getting some four pound packages from a local gross-importer.

Now, here's the rub: Everywhere I read about hiving package bees recommends, often very strongly, that they be hived into a nuc or super with several frames of fully drawn comb. I don't have easy access to fully drawn comb and I'm not certain I want to risk acquiring disease by using comb frames from other local beekeepers. I am also pretty certain I want to avoid plastic comb.

How long will it delay a healthy bee population? Since there is no frame for the queen to immediately start laying into, should I seal the entrance with hardware cloth for a day or two in order to let the queen's pheramones thoroughly permeate the new hive (to prevent them leaving to seek a new home)? I already know I will have to feed them more than I might otherwise, but are there likely to be other items to consider besides syrup and pollen that help encourage wax and/or speed wax production?

[buzzbee]

If you use Perco or wax foundation and feed a lot of sugar syrup,the bees will draw wax for the queen to lay in. They do npt need to be fully drawn for her to lay.
I had dura gilt and my son had plasticell and after one week there was a lot of egg laying and honey storing going on.Bees know what to do if given the feed and place to do it.

[Cindi]

This is my recommendation.  I have hived 4 packages two years consecutively.

I did not have drawn foundation to use.  We hived our bees at our instructor's farm.  He is a commercial beekeeper and teaches classes as well.

the bees were hived in deep 10 frame boxes.  The use of the 10 frame deeps are common here.  9 frames of foundation and 1 plastic inner feeder.  The bees were fed pollen patty and 2:1 sugar syrup for the period of at least 6 weeks.  then they basically were on their own with food.  And by then there was lots of nectars to be found.  It is important that the bees do not run out of sugar syrup, they use alot of food in wax creation.  YOu will be surprised how much suguar syrup a 3 pound box of bees will consume in a few days.  That seems to be the average size of packages.

Like Buzzbee said, the cells do not have to be fully drawn for the queen to lay, the girls will build the cells up around the egg if it has not had a chance to be built up by the time the anxious queen lays in it.

I think the norm with package bees is that the queen is caged until the bees release her into the colony.  This can take several days.  If they have enough food to create wax then the bees will certainly have drawn quite a bit of cells for the queen once she gets out of the cage. 

Hope this offers a little more clarification  Great day.  Cindi

[Michael Bush]

>Now, here's the rub: Everywhere I read about hiving package bees recommends, often very strongly, that they be hived into a nuc or super with several frames of fully drawn comb.

If you have it, drawn comb is great.  If you don't, they will build it.  Swarms do it all the time.  It's what bees do.  Let them.

[KONASDAD]

I would be more conscerned about chilled brood in your area b/c they wont be able to fill-up a deep brood chamber. A nuc sounds better. More experience keepers will chime-in hopefully. Perticularly cold weather experienced keepers.

[Cindi]

No, no chilled brood.  We hived our packages about the middle of April.  I have not experienced with 2 years of package bees any chilled brood. 

By the middle of April in our climate, it is not cold, nor is it very cold at night.  Our very last frost free date is April 30, according to experts in the plant business.  By the end of April all manner of flower plants can be set outside without fear of frost kill. 

We use the deeps.  Our instructor who uses deeps and runs 1200 colonies faithfully hives packages every year in April.  He would not instruct us to use the deeps if he thought that there would be chilled brood.  I trust his advice implicitly.  If you knew this man you would understand by listening to him that his "girls" are the most important things in his life.  Success of his students is premium as well to him.  He  not only is a commercial beekeeper, he is in love with the field of beekeeping and bees.  Great day.  Cindi

[Paraplegic Racehorse]

I had dura gilt and my son had plasticell and after one week there was a lot of egg laying and honey storing going on.

That's what I was after. A week or so before laying. Another three for new bees. All the while, the old packaged swarm is slowly dying off. So... About eight weeks before the hive is self sufficient enough to stop feeding?

As for temperature, where I am at, we commonly see 45F+ by mid-April. If I were much farther north, like Umiat, I wouldn't even bother since there's only about eight weeks of above-freezing temperatures per year and often less. Then again, Umiat is also nearly 800 miles north of me. :) I fondly remember listening to the river ice break up in June...

[thegolfpsycho]

There is a guy on beesource that keeps bees in Alaska.  I can't remember his name off hand, but I'm sure you could search their site and contact him.  He probably could help guide you through the initial pitfalls and help you get some colonys up and running.

[buzzbee]

Finsky is also in a very northen climate. His season is not that long but his yields are great.
You may be able to learn some of his methods and adapt them to your situation.  Good luck with your adventure. :)

[Brian D. Bray]

I will back up what Cindi says as well as MB.  The queen will start laying in partially drawn comb just as they will begin curing honey in partially drawn comb.  chill brood is usually not a problem in packaged bees.  Cindi and I have very similar weather patterns--mostly due to our close proximity to Vancouver Island that plays a big roll in air currents.
I've put packaged bees on foundation lots of times and as long as they are fed a syrup mixture to help them build comb with have not experienced any unusual problems.  I have to start 3 pacakages on starter strips this coming spring because of storm loss. 
The wind huffed and puffed and blew my hives over.

[Kathyp]

when you start a package on starter strips, do you think they take longer to build up?  they have to build all comb from scratch.

[Brian D. Bray]

I've found they will draw the comb faster from starter strips more rapidly than they draw the comb from full sheets of foundations.  It's a more normal, more natural operation to them. They also draw it out more uniformily than with foundation.

[Michael Bush]

>when you start a package on starter strips, do you think they take longer to build up?  they have to build all comb from scratch.

They build their own comb more quickly than foundation and lay it it more readily.  That's not only my observation:

" The queen prefers to lay in natural built combs rather than those built from foundation. I have used all kinds of foundation and find this to be true. The comb shown was not trimmed back so it can be seen that the queen laid in a sort of horseshoe shape." --Jay Smith

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#Stocking%20the%20Breeder%20Hive